What do you think of ScoutParents? What are your experiences with Scouting? [Archive]

silverwolfe2003

04-24-2006, 06:24 AM

My son is in his second year of scouting. I think it has given him many opportunities so far that he wouldn't otherwise get to participate in. There are a few things that bother me though. His troop really encourages the dads to get involved and particpate...but my son's dad is NOT a good role model and is not very involved with his life. I'm pretty much Mom AND Dad to my son. It's difficult for him when all of the other boy's fathers attend various functions and go on different trips but his dad isn't around. I know it bothers him but he usually doesn't complain too much. Mothers aren't allowed to go on the trips with the boys and to tell the truth, I'm not in any shape to go anyway!:p I want my son to continue with scouting because I think that it is really teaching him some valuable information that he isn't going to learn anywhere else, due to lack of a strong male role model in his life. Any ideas or tips? Anyone else in the same situation?

Samantha

Mungo from the Shire

04-26-2006, 11:52 PM

Don't worry about it, if you want to help, volunteer to be on the Troop Committee. Remember-you are being a great parent by keeping your son involved !!! You will be a positive influence if you do nothing more than take him to the meetings, a lot of kids do not even have parents willing to do that.

foolash4BSA

04-27-2006, 03:59 PM

Stick with it. Hang out at meetings just to see what goes on. If someone doesn't put you to work, ASK "what can I do to help?" Find another mom to buddy up with, and brainstorm ways to contribute to the troop - go on outings, meetings, be a merit badge counselor, committee member, board of review . . . Volunteer to arrange an outing that matches something YOU are passionate about. Surely one of the 100+ MB topics is something you can contribute. Even just being the van driver to deliver boys to/from a trailhead is a way to be involved. The conversation among boys on the way to and from the woods is often VERY enlightening. If you are pushing your personal limits to go on an outing, that's helpful to the boys. They learn a great deal by seeing others (esp. adults) struggle with adversity and overcome it. Your son will be proud of you, and might even TELL you!

foolash4BSA

04-27-2006, 04:23 PM

I like the general concept, and agree parent involvement is critical in maximizing the benefits for an individual boy, good for units in terms of retention, recruitment, etc. I don't altogether like the implication that if a parent stays involved, and their boy stays in Scouting, he will become an Eagle Scout. At least I hope that's not where we are headed. Eagle Scout is NOT a badge for years of service. If EVERY boy becomes an Eagle, the rank will be meaningless. I think there's a reason the rank of First Class is called that, and parents should be more concerned with the character building aspects of participation, not just in putting Eagle Scout on a college application. A boy who makes it only to Star rank is NOT a failure. He's done the core program and a bit more, and WILL be a better man for it. Let's spread THAT word.

Scout Enthusiast

05-31-2006, 06:20 PM

@Foolash,
Do you agree that parents involvement is an important factor in retaining Scouts? And, if a parent takes an interest in a Scout's activities, isn't the Scout likely to achieve more?

I don't understand why it isn't conceivable that all Scouts in a troop could become Eagle Scouts. It is hard work for sure, but why not set high goals?

scoutdad

06-25-2006, 12:13 AM

@foolash
I strongly disagree with your statement. I think we can do much better than only 4% of all boys making Eagle Scout. I do think that should be the goal. I think if parents understand the program and the benefits of Scouting, then they will encourage their son to become an Eagle. Once a parent understands the benefits of Scouting they will not only help their son, but Scouting in general. More boys making Eagle, will not dilute the rank, but make Scouting stronger. If a boy quits at Star, did he do his best? Did we do our best to help him make Eagle, doesn't every boy deserve to be an Eagle Scout? I have not seen anything in Scouting literature that suggest the rank of Eagle is not the goal. Do you not think that by becoming an Eagle scout the scout will have experienced more character building?

Nuts4Scouts

06-27-2006, 01:45 PM

I have not seen anything in Scouting literature that suggest the rank of Eagle is not the goal.

Sorry Scoutdad, then you have not read very much BSA literature.

From BSA literature - "The purpose of the Boy Scouts of America is to provide an educational program for boys and young adults to build character, to train in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and to develop personal fitness."

More BSA literature- "The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

More BSA literature- "The Boy Scouts of America is the nation's foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. In the future Scouting will continue to:
Offer young people responsible fun and adventure;
Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law;
Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership;
Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program."

Even More BSA literature - "Specifically, the BSA endeavors to develop American citizens who are physically, mentally, and emotionally fit; have a high degree of self-reliance as evidenced in such qualities as initiative, courage, and resourcefulness; have personal values based on religious concepts; have the desire and skills to help others; understand the principles of the American social, economic, and governmental systems; are knowledgeable about and take pride in their American heritage and understand our nation's role in the world; have a keen respect for the basic rights of all people; and are prepared to participate in and give leadership to American society."

And one last quote from even more BSA literature - "The Scouting program has three specific objectives, commonly referred to as the "Aims of Scouting." They are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness.

The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each.

Ideals.
Patrols.
Outdoor Programs.
Advancement. Boy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method. The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge. The Boy Scout is rewarded for each achievement, which helps him gain self-confidence. The steps in the advancement system help a Boy Scout grow in self-reliance and in the ability to help others.
Associations With Adults.
Personal Growth.
Leadership Development.
Uniform."

Where in all of the above BSA literature, or any other BSA literature, can you point to the BSA statement that the goal of the BSA programs is for a boy to achieve the rank of Eagle?

As stated in the "Aims and Methods", advancement is simply ONE of the methods that BSA uses to achieve its aims of character development, citizenship training & personal fitness. It is not considered more important than any of the other methods.

scoutdad

07-01-2006, 10:39 PM

Nuts, I have read my fair share of Scout Literature! Thanks for the quotes! My post clearly states that "I have not seen anything in Scouting literature that suggest the rank of Eagle is not the goal". I still don't see it in all of your quotes.

Here are some quotes from the Boy Scout Handbook:

-"Scouting promises you the opportunities to work toward the Eagle Scout Rank. You will set positive goals for yourself and then follow clear routes to achieve them."

-"Scouting provides many opportunities for you to learn skills and take part in terrific adventures. The Boy Scouts of America will recognize your achievements by awarding badges of rank.........The highest rank is Eagle."

-"Setting out to advance through the ranks of Scouting and become an Eagle Scout is an ambitious goal. Learning all the skills and completing all of the requirements will take dedication and hard work. But the journey will be worth it as the ideals and adventures of Scouting become part of your life."

-"Earning badges can be very satisfying. However, badges are not the most important part of Scouting. Of greater value is what the badges represent. The skills you master, the wisdom you gain, and the experience you enjoy are what really count. The merit badge program provides you the opportunity to meet and work with adult leaders in your community."

-"The first Boy Scout Handbook described anyone worthy of the Eagle Scout Award as "the all-round perfect scout." That is a very demanding standard indeed, and a worthy goal. Striving to become an Eagle Scout will require your best efforts to master the skills of leadership, service and outdoor know-how, and to practice good citizenship and ethical behavior of the highest order. The long trail to Eagle is full of opportunities for you to learn, to lead and to teach. Along the way and throughout your life, the rewards from earning the Eagle Scout Award will be great."

I stand firm in my conviction that we need to help more young men become Eagle Scouts.

Please don't misunderstand me. I am not for an out of balance program, but I believe achieving the rank of Eagle embodies the essence of Scouting.

Are you opposed to more boys achieving the rank of Eagle?

Nuts4Scouts

07-03-2006, 02:03 PM

Earning Eagle is a very good goal. Nothing wrong for a boy to aspire to do that.

What I am opposed to is having ADULTS push the rank of Eagle as the be all & end all of the BSA program. It is not. There are many boys/men out there who have not and/or will not, ever earn the rank of Eagle. Should we tell them that Scouting was a waste of their time?

I have seen parents drag & push their son to the Eagle rank, regardless of what the boy wants. Then, after the Eagle badge is awarded, they are out the door & gone, never to be seen again.

I have seen "Eagle Mills". Where the ONLY consideration of the Troop is how many Eagles they can produce each year. Some families like this kind of Troop, but inevitably the boys vote with their feet & go to Troops with more rounded programs.

As I stated earlier, Advancement is only ONE of the methods we use. It is NOT the only method, or the most important.

scoutdad

07-05-2006, 08:38 PM

Nuts, thanks for your reply and explanation. It is worthy of discussion.

To your first point, I would never tell any parent that any time spent in Scouting is wasted time, I would tell them it would be better for their son to become an Eagle Scout than to drop out.

What is wrong with parents pushing and encouraging their sons to become an Eagle Scout? I have met many, many men who were Star and Life scouts. Every single one of them expressed regret for not completing the rank of Eagle. I think it is unfair to use the term "Eagle Mill or Paper Eagles". I think that most adult leaders have more integrity than that. I do not think there is a conspiracy out there to crank up the number of Eagles via Eagle Mills nor do I think the board of review process is rigged. I do not fault a parent or leader for pushing their son to do their best and become an Eagle. I think in the end the boy will cherish the rank and has a much higher likelihood of giving back to scouting, than a drop out scout.

So what can we do to make Scouting better for all?

Nuts4Scouts

07-06-2006, 01:03 PM

What can we do to make Scouting better for all?

Make sure that our leaders are trained & that the training is up to date.

Make sure we give the boys the BSA program the boys are promised in all of the literature.

Follow the program the BSA has laid out for us.

Start with Cubs. Involve the family, make sure the boys have fun. Work with the Purposes & Methods of Cub Scouting.

Boy Scouts - Realize that TROOPS need to WORK to attract Webelos & actively participate in the Webelos to Scout transition. Keep the boys having fun & actively involved in their Troop at all age levels. Follow the Aims & Methods of Scouting. Focusing on 1 method (advancement), to the exclusion of all else, makes for an unbalanced program that tends to exclude some boys.

BTW - This is what BSA has to say to New Boy Scout Parents on the subject of Advancement -

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-110/index.html

Advancement—Boy Scouting has a system of ranks in which Scouts learn progressively more difficult skills and take on progressively greater responsibilities. The highest of these ranks is Eagle Scout. Becoming an Eagle Scout is an important achievement that your son can be proud of his entire life. But turning out Eagle Scouts is not what the Boy Scouting program is all about. Advancement is probably the most visible of the Boy Scouting methods, and the easiest to understand, but it is only one of eight methods. We strongly encourage advancement, but we never force it—advancement is the Scout's choice, and he sets his own pace. We don't do "lock-step" advancement. And many great Scouts, and great men, never became Eagle Scouts.

Mr. Bob

09-13-2006, 12:29 PM

Well, I am brand new to Scouts. I never was afforded the opportunity to join Scouts, even though I am sure I would have if I were...

Anyways, my son finished Kindergarten June and I immediately signed him up for Tigers. At the same time I signed up for Tiger den leader... Since then I have volunteered for Asst. Cubmaster, Pack Meeting organizer and other roles in the pack... I am having a ton of fun...

What I would like to see from Scout Parents are resources for involving parents and keeping them involved. One of our biggest issues with the Pack is volunteers. We have a stable and strong leadership team but other than CC our committee is bare. So any resources to help us in that area would be most beneficial...

Thanks
Mr. Bob

FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER

02-19-2007, 07:19 PM

To all of you think that Eagle Scout is the end all and the only thing that Scouting is about ARE REALLY WRONG AND MISSING THE POINT.

If we were to make everybody an Eagle Scout, we would be doing a disservce to all the former Eagles who got the hard way- through hard work and dedication to the Program and Ideals of Scouting.

I recently spoke a returning vet from Iraq, who is an Eagle Scout. He is very frustrated because he now feels that anybody and everybody is getting their Eagle. He feels that the rank has been greatly diminished. He is sad to see that so many parents do not know the significance of the Eagle Rank. He feels that want it only as a resume enhancer.

I recently resigned as Scoutmaster because parents felt is was their son's RIGHT to be an Eagle Scout. One Parent even told me that her son had to be an Eagle by age 15 so that he could move on to other things. This parent really understood the significance of Eagle, didn't they? Other parents have said that their sons have to have Eagle at age 15 so that they could get a driver's license. What was on this parent's mind, giving back to Scouting or getting out?

I could go on forever but the more I write the madder I get regarding parents getting their son their Eagle and moving on.

Bob Klimas
Concord, N.C.

WB Bear

02-20-2007, 10:07 PM

Frustrated SM your comment about the conversation you had with the veteran is a point I am in full agreement with. Not that everyone is becoming Eagles, but that fact that the integrity of Eagle Scout Rank. To me an Eagle Scout is someone, who at an early age, was faced it some goals to attain in to move up in rank. These goals are difficult but certainly attainable. A Scout will be presented the tools and opportunities to meet those goals. It is solely his responsibility to accept and meet those challenges. If there are shortcuts of any kind in attaining those goals for or by the Scout, it is a big disservice to him and also to every Eagle.

So as parents and leaders our focus on a boy’s trail to Eagle must be his TRAIL.

Scouter_58

02-21-2007, 02:50 PM

On the other hand, how should the Scout respond to undue obstacles (extra "challenges") placed in the "Trail to Eagle" by Scouters, volunteer and professional alike, perhaps in their apparently misguided attempts to preserve the integrity (low numbers?) of the Eagle rank and honor? When do parents get involved or should they stand by and let their Life Scout handle all the issues? What I am trying to say is, how does a Scout and a "Scout Parent" deal with Eagle (or other Scout rank) advancement and service project rules created and imposed by a troop, district, or council advancement committee or chairperson that are above and beyond those established in the Boy Scout Handbook, Boy Scout Requirements Book, or the Advancement Committee Guide: Policies and Procedures, as examples of official Scouting rule-type documents? After all, when Scouters sign up, don't they also "...agree to comply with the Charter and Bylaws, and the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America...."?

FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER

02-21-2007, 04:18 PM

Dear Scouter 58:

What undue obstacles are you talking about?
When a boy is presented his Eagle Scout Leadeship Packet after he attains his Life Rank, our District Committee stresses that the key word is LEADERSHIP.
No one is there to try and deny a Boy becoming an Eagle Scout. BUT, one has to remember that it is up to the boy to present his project, execute the LEADERSHIP on his project, and present himself after the completed project to the Eagle Board of Review.
Some of your frustration should be directed at the Scoutmaster of Troop who allowed the boy to go before the Project Approval Board without being prepared.
If a boy cannot answer basic questions about his project, the Board will try to help him or tell him to come back next month better prepared. Remember, the Boy Scout Motto is "BE PREPARED."
if you as a parent intervene, what are you teaching your son. If that is the case, maybe your son is not ready to be an Eagle. Maybe you shopuld carry our his project for him and then he can just waltz into the Board and they willmake him an Eagle based on YOUR work and not HIS.
Finally, if you do not like the decision that the Board makes, you have the right to appeal the Board's decision.
I know because I have sat on the Project Board and Eagle Board.
You need to walk in the shoes of the Board Members. They are trying to maintain the intregity and significac e of the Eagle Rank. Most times the Board will be made up of Eagle Scouts and Scoutmasters.

lushrm

02-21-2007, 05:20 PM

I found this today as i searched for ways to increase the # of parents who participate in our pack. I was volunteered to be the pack committee chair by my wife (that is the last time i missed a parents meeting!). After a year of internship, i took over this current year.

Background: I was a cubscout (wolf, bear, webelo) and then boy scout for several years in PA. I attained the rank of first class, but then other activities started to command my time, so i dropped out. I now have two cub scouts (bear and webelo) and I am having a ball! It is fun to see them learn and achieve things and really show enthusiasm for scouting. They always want to do everything scout related.

So I think the premise of this program is great, but it is not well advertised, and i think additional tools/ideas would be a great benefit to everyone.

Our "pack committee" consists of the parents of the scouts in my older sons den (other than the two other den leaders that show up). We really want to meet with all the parents to have them think about volunteering for positions next year. We have tried to put on the best year we can, but we want to do even more next year.

sorry for the rambling...
Happy Scouting!

Nuts4Scouts

02-22-2007, 11:25 AM

Scouter_58, I am sorry to hear that is happening in your Troop and/or council. Unfortunately, there will always be folks out there who think they know better than the BSA how the program should be run. Some of these program "tweaks" can be subtle & some can be very blatant. It can be real hard on a boy who knows how the program should actually be run.

It can also be hard on a parent watching your son hit artificially imposed requirements that have no business being there. Unfortunately, there is not a whole lot you can do if the council Advancement Chair is warping the program too. You could try talking to your UC, DC, or DE about the problem. Otherwise, talk to your son & encourage him to follow their rules & to do his best. But -

Keep in mind that if he is denied his Eagle because of adding to or changing the requirements, he always has the ability to appeal the decision. The process for appealing should be included in his Eagle paperwork. If the appeal goes to National, they will usually find FOR the Eagle candidate when there has been manipulation of the program & requirements.

WB Bear

02-22-2007, 12:26 PM

On the other hand, how should the Scout respond to undue obstacles ("challenges") placed in the "Trail to Eagle" by Scouters, volunteer and professional alike, in their misguided attempts to preserve the integrity (low numbers?) of the Eagle rank and honor? Do parents get involved or should they stand by and let the Life Scout handle all the issues, e.g., with "added" Eagle advancement and service project rules created by a council or district advancement committee or chairperson?

Upholding the integrity must not be equated to low numbers.

Leaders are responsible for guiding the Scout along the trail and the parents are the support and also guidance. It is the Scout that must make the journey. BSA has set the requirements for all ranks. BSA also states that no council, district, unit or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirements. If there are, they need to be addressed. If attempts through the volunteer structure are unsuccessful then your DE should be contacted.

There is also provision within the advancement program for Scouts with Special Needs. Implantation of any variances of BSA requirements is done only through the Council Advancement Committee.

FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER

02-22-2007, 04:41 PM

Dear Nuts4Scouts:

Your comments about appeals are right except for one thing.
In our Council, the appeal is first heard within the Council. The Appeals Committee is made up of all the District Advancement Chairpersons within the Council. Normally, a favorable decision is made at the Council level, without having to go to National.
Our Council has also put together a uniform set of guidelines to be used at all Eagle Boards throughout our Council. NO CHANGES, NO OBSTACLES, NO ROADBLOCKS. This was a big change because SOME Districts conducted their Boards according to the Frank Sinatra song: "I Did It My Way." Now everybody is doing according to BSA Policies. I was quite a fight to change saome minds but smarter and cooler heads prevailed.
I am glad to serve on the Boards because we have uniformity and the best interest of the Boys and the Program at heart.
Nothing makes us prouder than to pass a boy at his Eagle Board of Review.

Bob Klimas
District Advancement Board Member
Unit Commissioner

Nuts4Scouts

02-23-2007, 12:31 AM

The appeal process goes from unit Committtee, to District Committee, to Council Committee and finally to National.

If the BSA program is followed, you should very seldom have to go past the District level. However, according to Scouter_58 :

how does a Scout and a "Scout Parent" deal with Eagle (or other Scout rank) advancement and service project rules created and imposed by a troop, district, or council advancement committee or chairperson

From this it seems the District & Council are doing their own thing too.

cubbobwhite

02-23-2007, 11:54 AM

Nuts4Scouts

02-23-2007, 03:02 PM

I understand your feelings Leslie. My son never got to Eagle either. He was not very merit badge friendly. ;)

He, did however stay active in Scouting & on his 18th b-day turned in an adult app to the Pack to become an Asst Den Leader for the 2nd grade Wolf Den.

WB Bear

02-23-2007, 03:56 PM

That 4% figure includes all boys who join Scouting, even those boys who quite after starting out as Tiger Cubs and quit.

After reading many of the above comments, I came to the conclusion that I should be embarrassed that neither of my sons became Eagle Scouts (even though they remained active until they turned 18). And I can assure you I am not. And their Dad (my late husband) was a Senior District Executive :confused:

I didn’t mean or understood any of the discussion inferred anything demeaning to those boys who didn’t attain Eagle. If this program of 97 years only had a success rate (Eagle Scouts) of 4%, I would think it would be time to shut it down.

Scouting is not about becoming an Eagle Scout. The purpose statement is to provide an educational program for boys and young adults to build character, to train in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and to develop personal fitness.

My interpretation was that so often leaders and parents are so focused on producing Eagles that lose site of the boy earning it on his own. Our boys have acquired invaluable character traits and skills in Scout that provide a great foundation for life. We should never be embarrassed. It is disappointing but we must remember all he has gained and what a better person it has made him.

I would much rather see a boy follow the program as it is meant to be and not attain Eagle, then to see him become an Eagle Scout by short stepping the process.

scoutdad

02-24-2007, 11:03 AM

I really do not understand this discussion on Eagle Scouts. My hope is that every boy that enters Scouting will attain the rank of Eagle. I am tired of people claiming Eagle mills etc. Attaining the rank of Eagle is not that difficult if the boy is encouraged and the parent is involved. It takes perseverance. A parent can make a difference. Why do we spend more time talking about too many Eagles, Eagle mills, and parents pushing their child to be an Eagle, rather than helping boys attain the rank of Eagle Scout. It is sad.

We don't send our kids to high school and hope all do not graduate. Eagle is the highest rank in Scouting. Why not help every child attain that rank? It is an awesome achievement.

There is some warped thinking that more Eagles will diminish the rank. Get a grip. It will only improve scouting for the next 100 years. The only statistics that I have seen is that the rank of Eagle helps a child.

I am tired of old, grumpy, burned out people trying to stop an ambitious child from making Eagle. All I hear is "When I was in Scouts 30 years ago we had to blah,blah,blah." It sounds like a broken record and most likely you did not have someone STANDING in your way trying to stop you, but rather a caring volunteer and parent helping you cheering you on!

Scouting is changing. Change is good. All things must change. Please help scouting change for the better. It is a great program, I think we all agree on that.

WB Bear

02-24-2007, 12:53 PM

Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone who entered college graduated? Maybe it’s the educators who are standing in the way of the ambitious students with supportive parents? Maybe it’s too tough of a curriculum that is the stumbling block?

Scouting has changed I agree, but values have not.

scoutdad

02-24-2007, 01:16 PM

You are talking apples and oranges. I am talking about Scouting, not college.
We are talking about children, not adults.

No one is talking about lowering the bar. We are talking about attitudes and positive ways to help scouting. We are talking about helping boys succeed not finding fault at every turn.

I do agree that Scouting values have not changes. That is what I love about Scouting. It supports our value system.

The point is that all involved need to step up and do our best.

Nuts4Scouts

02-24-2007, 02:20 PM

Scoutdad - You state :

You are talking apples and oranges. I am talking about Scouting, not college. We are talking about children, not adults.

Yet you also stated :

We don't send our kids to school and hope all do not graduate.

So, you are also comparing apples to oranges. No Scouting is not school.

In school the aim is to graduate. That is what students and staff aim for every year from Pre-school thru College.

The aim of Scouting is not to simply "graduate" as an Eagle Scout. The "Aims of Scouting", per the BSA, are : character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness.

Advancement is simply one of the methods used to achieve these aims.

Yes, earning the highest rank in the Boy Scout program does require perseverance, & is an awesome achievement which should be supported, encouraged, & applauded by parents & Scout leaders.

However, as Baden-Powell said, "Scouting is a game with a purpose". Earning the rank of Eagle is not the purpose of the Scouting program. Developing a boy with good character, citizenship, & personal fitness who has learned to to make good ethical and moral choices is. This can happen even if the boy never gets past the rank of 1st Class.

WB Bear

02-24-2007, 02:46 PM

I totally agree we all need to step up and "Do our Best". But it's not apples and oranges. It's a set of criteria to reach a set of life goals. The criteria have been developed with educated insight to be appropriate for young adults.

scoutdad

02-24-2007, 10:20 PM

Scouting is not about becoming an Eagle Scout. The purpose statement is to provide an educational program for boys and young adults to build character, to train in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and to develop personal fitness.

I have not seen anyone say it was about becoming an Eagle Scout. What is wrong with wanting more boys to attain Eagle? If Parents, leaders and the boys "do their best", in every thing you mentioned, wouldn't more Eagle Scouts be a natural result of that?
I am extremely proud of every boy that achieves this rank.

My interpretation was that so often leaders and parents are so focused on producing Eagles that lose site of the boy earning it on his own. Our boys have acquired invaluable character traits and skills in Scout that provide a great foundation for life. We should never be embarrassed. It is disappointing but we must remember all he has gained and what a better person it has made him.

I do not know of single Eagle Scout that made it on his own. Behind every successful Eagle Scout, I guarantee there is a parent, relative, mentor, volunteer, Assistant SM or Scoutmaster.

Boys at this age are easily distracted. There is absolutely nothing with with encouraging and yes if necessary pushing, pulling or whatever is necessary to keep the boys focused and in the program. What you are forgetting is that we are not just talking about Eagles. We are really talking about boys dropping out of the program. It is rare for a boy to stay in until 18 and not make Eagle. If they don't make it then they don't make it, but lets all "Do our Best"

I would much rather see a boy follow the program as it is meant to be and not attain Eagle, then to see him become an Eagle Scout by short stepping the process.

Why is it that when a boy does not make Eagle, he is following the program or he must be doing it right, like that is more noble than some other kid that is knocking it out?

Why is it that the ambitious boy and his family must be short stepping the program? The path to Eagle is clear. It would take a mass conspiracy to make this happen.

We need to quit advocating mediocrity, quit making excuses for those that don't persevere and quit punishing those that work hard and know what they want.

I have met many men that regret not making Eagle. I have not met one that "did his best" and did not make it. They all know how many merit badges they were short when they dropped out. It is the same thing over and over. Gasoline and Perfume.

Again, my plea is for us to help parents to become more active in Scouting with their child and to find a place to volunteer and give back. I am sure we all can agree on that.

WB Bear

02-25-2007, 12:51 AM

Why is it that when a boy does not make Eagle, he is following the program or he must be doing it right, like that is more noble than some other kid that is knocking it out?

No everyone is different and they work at different paces.

Why is it that the ambitious boy and his family must be short stepping the program? The path to Eagle is clear. It would take a mass conspiracy to make this happen.

It is quite clear however and most unfortunately the adults just don't motivate and support the boy.

We need to quit advocating mediocrity, quit making excuses for those that don't persevere and quit punishing those that work hard and know what they want.

I have met many men that regret not making Eagle. I have not met one that "did his best" and did not make it. They all know how many merit badges they were short when they dropped out. It is the same thing over and over. Gasoline and Perfume.

Again, my plea is for us to help parents to become more active in Scouting with their child and to find a place to volunteer and give back. I am sure we all can agree on that.

I too have meant many who regret not earning their Eagle. Ask them why next time. Ask them if they did their best, why didn’t they attain Eagle. Most likely they did their best to at what they did. But first of all its not about merit badges its about making the boy making the commitment to on his own fulfill the requirements, not his parents or leaders handling some of the arrangements of completing the requirements. Just as an example I have seen many parents or leaders make phone calls and contacts for the boy’s Eagle project. How many boys have contacted a merit badge counselor so he can work of the badge as oppose to a leader or parent telling him that he is going to do it. How often when a boy has a leadership position and doesn’t have it done do parents and leaders do it for him? That does happen and maybe you should be more cognizant of those dynamics. Scouting allows a boy to make decisions and to learn to live with the consequences.

Support by leaders and parents are of great benefit to a Scout. However, even with the best supportive parents and leaders, the boy might not complete the Trail. It is his decision and his only to become an Eagle. Not a leader or parent!

As I have said before we do need more adults to step up to the plate. It will help facilitate the opportunities for the Scout we make available in Scouting. I would love to see every boy become an Eagle Scout.

1st Mate

03-25-2007, 05:25 PM

Last year approximately 5% of scouting youth earned Eagle...does that mean we failed in our goals 95% of the time?

If the mission of scouting were to develop boys who reach Eagle then I would agree that advancement to Eagle is the goal of scouting.

But I know that the mission is to develop young people who can make ethical decisions throughout their lives based on the values of the Oath and Law. That being the case Eagle is simply one level of one tool we use to achieve that mission. Eagle should be the goal of a scout and should not be (and is not) the goal of scouting.

If a boy leaves scouting once he earns the arrow of light and grows up to be a good citizen, a good neighbor, a good sibling, has he failed to achieve the goals of scouting simply because he is not an Eagle Scout. Does a young lady who earns the Sea Scout Able rank and joins the Navy at 18 to serve her country, and later becomes a community volunteer, wife, and a good mother not met the goals of Scouting?

Eagle Scout Rank is worn on the outside the goals of scouting are grown on the inside.There are lots of ways to earn the Eagle Scout rank. I would rather devlop scouts whose behavior leads people to assume they are Eagles, then to have someone have to tell me they are an Eagle because I can't see it in their values.

Let's keep advancement at any level as a tool to teach the goals, and lets keep the goal to be the character that results from their scouting experiences.

Fair Winds and Following Seas
1st Mate