BSA religious requirements -accepting Wicca? [Archive]

BelieveInScouting

06-23-2007, 11:58 PM

I know of a boy in Scouting who is what he calls "ancient faith". He would be what many of us might call Wiccan, but he doesn't like to call it that. I've promised to keep his secret, because he is a wonderfully kind and very spiritual boy and definitely not "Godless" as many people call the Wiccans.

I've heard stories of boys being refused Eagle because they are Wiccan.

I know that the VA - therefore the government of sorts - has at last recognized Wicca because they allowed the family of a soldier killed in action to put their religious symbol on his headstones in a Veterans Cemetary...

What I want to know is what BSA still thinks about this. Someone rather high-up in our Council says that while there is no religious emblem of faith for Wiccan, BSA no longer rejects it as a faith, and therefore Wiccans CAN be members of BSA. The Declaration of Religious Principle basically requires the belief in a higher power, regardless of whether you want to call it God, Yahweh, Allah, etc.

....so Wiccans are okay in Scouting?

Opinions? Thoughts?

1st Mate

06-24-2007, 03:05 PM

As I understand it a scout merely needs to have faith in a greater power and what that power is called is irrelevant. the BSA does not require the scout to claim membership in any specific religion.

What concerns me more than the scout claiming to be of an ancient faith is... a scout leader who would promise to keep it secret, if in fact he were in violation of the BSA membership policies.

Such a promise does not benefit the Scout or Scouting. And you first signed an agreement with the BSA to follow their policies.

Is it justifiable to openly agree to support the organization's policies and then in make a pact with someone to keep their violation a secret?

Something to think about for the future when a scout actually is in violation, luckily for both of you, this time, he is not.

BelieveInScouting

06-24-2007, 03:42 PM

You can believe that I pondered this entire thing for quite some time before I made the conscious decision to keep my mouth shut.

I can see why it would be a concern that a leader "keep a secret"... it's a valid concern...

...and I've recently been faced with something else where I knew immediately that it was something to speak up about right away (it had to do with abuse suspicions). It was actually only a small "red flag" but it turned out that I made the right choice and got the right people involved and everything was handled properly...

This morning I read on another Scouting forum with posts from 2004-2006 (on this topic), and looking the other way on something as mild as religious beliefs - to me - is more "an act of civil disobedience" than committing an outright violation of policies. They were discussing the UU religious emblem and trying to figure out ways for other spritual boys who are in a faith that doesn't have a BSA recognized religious emblem, to "earn" their emblem of faith so they can wear the knot... there are several schools of thought on all of this.... and I'm just trying to figure out where I fit in :)

I'm an outspoken advocate of religious tolerance and very little gets by me when it comes to this topic...

1st Mate

06-24-2007, 04:50 PM

I am not sure you can count it as "civil disobedience" if no one knows you are doing it? isn't the goal of civil disobedience to display your personal protest by publicly showing you will not follow the curent rule or law?

What you "chose" to do was to secretly break your word the the BSA so that neither you nor the scout would be subject to any disciplinary actions because you knowingly violated a rule. That is not "civil" disobedience, it's just disobedience, and done on the sly to boot. Is that the example that should be set for the youth?

If you are a volunteer in a private organization and there is a rule you are unwilling to follow or support, and you could not change it, wouldn't the strongest possible protest be to simply choose to no longer be a member rather than to stay a member and break the rules?

I am not suggesting you quit over this since no rule was broken. I am asking if the more trustworthy and loyal thing to do, if the rules do not suit you (and you have no authority to change them), would be to resign rather than hide your actions from others?

How would you feel if you found out that another adult leader in the unit you serve was hiding policy infractions and had 'secret' pacts with scouts? Would you be as forgiving with them as you seem to be with yourself?

That isn't a safe way to operate a scouting unit is it?

These are important questions to consider.

BelieveInScouting

06-24-2007, 06:39 PM

... so please tell me, what rule did I break?

What did I violate?

What did I do wrong by agreeing to not discuss something a Scout asked me to keep in confidence?

Is it against the rules for him to be Wiccan?

1st Mate

06-24-2007, 07:00 PM

I think we established that no rules were broken this time, but you did not know that at the time you promised the scout to keep it a secret. You were willing to keep a secret of what you thought was a membership violation.

Had the scout actually been in violation for the Declaration of Religious Principle and you knew it and kept it a secret, would you be doing the right thing considering your agreement to uphold the policies of the BSA?

What if the scout wasn't wonderful and kind, would you have kept the secret then?

Are rules to be followed based on how much we like the other person?

Again, if you learned that another leader in the unit you served was keeping a secret of a policy violation, would you be as forgiving?

BelieveInScouting

06-24-2007, 11:22 PM

I feel you are painting this with a very big brush and that concerns me. I feel as if you are implying that I would not see the difference between a very spritual Scout who was in a non-traditional faith, and another Scout who loved to prey on cub scouts.

Yes, if I was uptight enough about religion to find out that a leader was "keeping a secret about a scout in another faith" I would be upset.

If I was in a Unit that had leaders that were that uptight about religion, I'd be gone from that Unit so fast the door would disintegrate and I'd be up at Council pounding on desks.

The reason this is all happening now is because I'm part of the support system to a friend whose family is full-blooded Navajo and her son (Web1) wants to earn his religious emblem of faith. Even SHE kept her mouth shut for years - not knowing if even his faith would be accepted. Once she got brave enough to speak up, it turned out that many people knew that her faith was "Traditional Navajo" yet no one made a big deal of it. Now those same people are supporting her in her quest to see if National could somehow make it an accepted faith... after all, with as much Native American stuff the BSA incorporates into its progam, you'd think they'd be okay with it?

It's through all of this that led me to be brave enough to begin asking about other faiths - including Wicca.

I never once thought it was "against the rules" - because I've heard stories from all over the place that depending on the area in which you live, is how you'll be treated. It's the "Don't ask, don't tell" kind of thing.

How could ANY faith be "Against the rules" ?????? If I really thought that being an "non-traditional faith" would blow the gasket of all these BSA folks, I wouldn't be involved in the program at all.

I always thought it was just one of those things you "kept quiet about", but now that it appears BSA is becoming more openly accepting (again, depending on where you live) that it would be okay for this young man to be open about his faith.

I feel you are treating me as if I knew about some Scoutmaster/Scout sexual abuse and I'm keeping it a secret or something...

1st Mate

06-24-2007, 11:43 PM

WHOA!

I never even mentioned preying on cub scouts or sexual abuse. I am asking about upholding policies of the BSA. You agreed to keep the scouts "religion" a secret because you said you did not know if it would be accepted by the BSA.

What if Wiccan wasn't accepted? Were you willing to keep the scouts ineligibility for membership a secret? (Pounding on your councils door would not have helped as this is a national membership policy that your local council has no authority over.)

What if it wasn't the Declaration of Religious Principles policy? What if you knew that the scout was age ineligible but was still a really wonderful kid? Would you have kept that a secret.

My point is that regardless of the scout's situation you promised to keep secret a membership requirement that could have made hime ineligible for membership, is that fair to the boy? Is it fair to other scouts? Is it in keeping with your obligation to the BSA?

Honesty is truly the best policy. There was no need to promise the scout to keep his secret. You could have promised to find out the answer and share it with his parents or guardians and unit leader openly and honestly. Not all youth meet the requirements of membership in the BSA. That does not make them bad people, just ineligible. If a boy cannot meet the scouting membership requirements it is better they find out sooner than later. Would you have preferred that it be discovered in a Boy Scout Scoutmaster's conference or a Board of Review? Because the question will be asked eventually.

This is not a program where keeping secrets with children is usually a good thing...for anyone.

BelieveInScouting

06-25-2007, 12:05 AM

WHOA!
I never even mentioned preying on cub scouts or sexual abuse. I am asking about upholding policies of the BSA. You agreed to keep the scouts "religion" a secret because you said you did not know if it would be accepted by the BSA.

...and this is why I began my investigation - why I began asking questions - why I came here to ask. I wanted to get a feel of what I may be up against before I marched into my DE's office... I got such good responses and help last time I came into this forum, I'd hoped for the same.

What if Wiccan wasn't accepted? Were you willing to keep the scouts ineligibility for membership a secret? (Pounding on your councils door would not have helped as this is a national membership policy that your local council has no authority over.)

Actually, my goal was to find out just it all worked. If I'd found out that BSA really didn't want to have anything to do with this wonderful kid, just because of his faith, I would have gone to him and his family and I would have probably taken them by the hands and walked out the door with them....

Would you have preferred that it be discovered in a Boy Scout Scoutmaster's conference or a Board of Review? Because the question will be asked eventually.
This is not a program where keeping secrets with children is usually a good thing...for anyone.

His parents knew I knew. his parents knew I was going to ask questions. Did I say I was going to keep my mouth shut forever? These people did hear about the Scout that was denied Eagle because of his faith. Then we hear about all this religious tolerance stuff, and how many units, districts, councils, etc are starting to "forbid" the name of Jesus in their prayers because they want to be more religiously diversified.

I wanted to NOT RUFFLE FEATHERS until I found out more. I never said I was going to keep his dirty little secret for ever and ever.

I had no plans to tell this boy and his family that they had to leave Scouting until I found out more. I wanted to support them in their quest, just as I am supporting my Navajo friend and her son's quest.

I think there are times to speak up right away, and there are times not to. Leaders are trusted to make good decisions and I still feel I made the right one. I didn't betray anyone...

Heck, my Field Director just sent me a wonderful article about Wicca and he said he can't wait to tell the kid he can let out his breath and be more open about his faith if he chooses to.

I know your intentions are good, and your concerns are real...but I get the feeling that you aren't very big into the "...in the Spirit of Scouting" type of stuff...

1st Mate

06-25-2007, 12:51 AM

By "in the spirit of Scouting" do you mean willing to keep quiet if a scout was in violation of the membership requirements?

I think you are misunderstanding my posts and I ask you take a moment and read them again. There is no problem with finding what the Declaration of Religious Principle is and how it would effect this particular young person. My only question was about a scout leader keeping a members beliefs secret so that he could remain a scout even if he was not eligible.

Rules are for everyone no just for the wonderful people. If the youth was ineligible then he would be ineligible whether he was wonderful or a terror. His temperment is not the issue when it comes to membership eligibility. Nor does it have anything to do with keeping secrets.

As a leader in the BSA we agree to abide by the policies of the BSA, not just
for the wonderful kids and not just when we agree with the rules.

That was my only point. Read the Excerpt form the Declaration of Religious Principles found inside the front cover of both the youth and adult volunteer application forms. Anyone who can except those conditions qualifies as far as their faith. There is no need or value in promising to keep his faith a secret, especially when it comes to his membership eligibiity.

BelieveInScouting

06-25-2007, 01:21 AM

I think you misunderstood everything I was trying to find out, and nearly succeeded in making me feel as if I broke some kind of law or something.

Spirit of Scouting to me, means roughly to determine whether in good faith, the requirements are being met to the best of a Scout's ability... to read the written words with an open mind and interpret them with an open heart.

If you determine that the Scout's heart is in the right place and he truly "did his best" and if he's just riding the line, then you consider that he's met the requirement.

That's me. In my Troop (and many others I know of), if a Scout completes the First Aid Merit Badge while he's Tenderfoot, he gets credit for all the First Aid requirements up through First Class.

...but down the street in another Unit, the Scoutmaster there makes them complete everything individually. Separately.

I would hope any adult with a brain knows the difference between items that can be dealt with "in the Spirit of Scouting" and those that need to be dealt with in pure blacks and whites.

If I was looking at two boys: 1 was a Christian boy who threatened others and stole from the boys and did drugs, etc - the other was a quiet Wiccan boy who was helpful and led the troop's prayers, etc. Which one do you think I'd be worried about?

Good God I'd hope adults in charge would know the difference...

I guess I promised to keep his faith a secret, more out of concern for how he would be treated by a few of the other "tolerant" (eye roll) scouts, than I was about whether or not he "qualified" to be in Scouting.

Even after all of this I hope the boy will be brave enough to be open about his faith, but until HE - and only HE - decides to discuss it openly, I will keep it a secret.

NOT to DECEIVE, but to PROTECT.

Thanks for your opinions, but I think this exchange is over now. I'd be anxious to hear anyone else's opinions...

1st Mate

06-25-2007, 02:18 AM

Nuts4Scouts

06-25-2007, 02:34 AM

The reason this is all happening now is because I'm part of the support system to a friend whose family is full-blooded Navajo and her son (Web1) wants to earn his religious emblem of faith. Even SHE kept her mouth shut for years

Why on earth would this family need a support system? There are many BSA units that are chartered by Indian organizations. Many Tribal Councils charter units for their boys. Why would you people make this family feel that they had to lie about their heritage, to hide it in order to be accepted by the BSA?!

BSA National does not have "accepted" faiths, or "banned" faiths. Any person who can honestly subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle is welcome to be a member.

Declaration of Religious Principle -

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of membership.

"God" in this instance, is considered any higher power. The only reason your Wiccan and Navajo boys should have to hide their religion is if you have intolerant folks in your unit, and if that is the case they should run, not walk to a better BSA unit!

BTW - Funny how the rumors of boys being denied their Eagle because they are Wiccan do not include the fact that if these same boys appeal this to the BSA National Advancement Board the denial would be overturned and the boys awarded their Eagle. Adding a requirement that a boy be a specific religious faith (or not of a specific religious faith) in order to be awarded his Eagle rank is against BSA rules.

As for the religious emblem programs, these programs are not BSA programs! They are programs that are created, and administered, by the various different religious groups in order to encourage their youth members to grow stronger in their faith. The only thing the BSA has to do with it is that they have approved many of the religious emblems for wear on the official BSA uniform. It is their uniform after all, and they have the final say as to what is put on it.

Weather or not a faith's religious emblem program has been approved by the BSA for wearing on their official uniform has nothing to do with any boys ability to earn the religious emblem of their faith. The BSA is not stopping them. They simply can not wear the emblem (in most cases some kind of medal) on the official BSA uniform. They can, however, wear the purple/silver universal religious square knot that signifies they have earned their faith's religious emblem.

There are many rules a religious organization must meet in order to get their religious emblem program approved by the BSA. Not the least of which (I believe) is that it must be a national program and not simply a local one. Note, I said it is up to the religious organization, not one family. It is the religious organizations emblem program, and it is up to them to work with BSA national if they wish to have it (the medal), approved for wear on the uniform. BSA does not approve religious faiths, only the wearing of their religious emblem on the BSA uniform.

BelieveInScouting

06-25-2007, 10:35 AM

If our religious heritage has taught us anything it is that faith is not served by keeping it hidden. Perhaps helping a young person to understand that would be a greater service than helping him think it needs to be kept secret.

I'm sorry but while your statement sounds very noble, it is nearly an exclusively a Christian/protestant philosophy. There are faiths out there that believe that their relationship with their God(s) is a personal one and should not be flaunted nor spoken of in attempts to convert.

I have no doubt that this young man has either witnessed or personally experienced terrible prejudices, because his parents are long-time Wiccans as well.

If his parents raised him with the 'don't ask/don't tell' when it comes to his faith, then it's his choice when/where/how he will speak of it. It is none of my business to attempt to pursuade him otherwise.

It will simply be my pleasure to tell him that he's not breaking any BSA rules, and won't get kicked out of Scouts because of it.

Dealing with misunderstanding and intolerance and ridicule is still - and will always be - the main issue.

WB Bear

06-25-2007, 11:07 AM

BelieveInScouting

06-25-2007, 11:24 AM

Religious beliefs are a never win topic. Each member of Scouting takes an oath to God and in our law a Scout is Reverent. There is a problem I believe if the Scout or Scouter cannot stand up for his belief in a Higher Power, or anyone who discourages it.

Thank you for your thoughts...

I guess we should all walk a mile in the shoes of someone who grew up fighting inacceptance and intolerance of his faith... I think it's safe to assume it's much more difficult than we all think.

This is where we must do our very best to be TRUSTWORTHY and if the boy asks me to remain quiet and leave it up to him when/where/how he will open up about this, then I will honor that. When he decides he's ready, I will support him 200%.

Thank you again -

1st Mate

06-25-2007, 11:56 AM

BelieveInScouting

06-25-2007, 12:24 PM

I am sorry Believeinscouting,
But when you think about what people have gone through for their faith; imprisonment, torture, exile, crucifixtion, beheading, and much of that still going on today in other countries...being worried about 'possibly being teased by kids at school' hardly registers on the Richter Scale of religious intolerance.

Whoa. I guess you don't know much about bullying, do you... I can't even respond to this one...wow.

One of the founding principles and still an major part of scouting is "Duty to God" at some point he is going to have to reveal his faith to others. You do him no service in helping him to hide it.

He's done fine so far. He's made it all the way through Cub Scouts, and is now nearly a First Class Boy Scout.

It is not my place to be his "inquisitor" - I will leave that decision up to him. I've told him that when he's ready, I'll help, but I will not say a word until then.

BelieveInScouting

06-25-2007, 12:42 PM

Why on earth would this family need a support system? There are many BSA units that are chartered by Indian organizations. Many Tribal Councils charter units for their boys. Why would you people make this family feel that they had to lie about their heritage, to hide it in order to be accepted by the BSA?!.

GOOD HEAVENS have you completely misunderstood what this is all about! Where did I say I suggested my Navajo friends LIE? If you read back to my post, I stated that I'm HELPING her. She's a quiet woman who never wanted to speak up. They don't live near a Tribal Council (they only spend summers there). Her unit is chartered by a Church, and she's felt all these years that she'd be better off keeping quite (much like the Wiccan boy)

With her son being a Web 1, he's now decided that he wants to earn his faith's religious emblem, but had no idea what to do about it. So sitting at a table, was her, myself, and our DE, and she hesitantly began to talk about this, and the DE and I were both surprised she'd kept quiet so long - so we helped her outline a plan so she could pursue this. She's contacted P.R.A.Y., she's contacted PrayPub.org. She's well on her way and is grateful for our help...

Again, we will leave it up to HER to "announce" anything her son has earned, and leave it up to HER to decide how/when she will share this with her unit. We're also hoping that she (with our support) will take this as high as she can and get BSA to have a "Traditional Native American" for an actual emblem of faith that can be worn on their uniform.

BSA National does not have "accepted" faiths, or "banned" faiths. Any person who can honestly subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle is welcome to be a member.

This is what I am now learning. It wasn't along ago that they tried to say differently (or at least imply it). Maybe it's because I live in the deep south and I'm around way too many people who think if you don't believe exactly what they do, you're wrong and worth fighting against...

Weather or not a faith's religious emblem program has been approved by the BSA for wearing on their official uniform has nothing to do with any boys ability to earn the religious emblem of their faith. The BSA is not stopping them. They simply can not wear the emblem (in most cases some kind of medal) on the official BSA uniform. They can, however, wear the purple/silver universal religious square knot that signifies they have earned their faith's religious emblem.

Again, this is what I'm just finding out. I thought I could come here for help with this, and all I got was grief. I'm glad I found another scouting forum who is more tolerant and where I found a bunch of valuable information on this.

Nuts4Scouts

06-25-2007, 04:46 PM

Where did I say I suggested my Navajo friends LIE?

Even SHE kept her mouth shut for years - not knowing if even his faith would be accepted.

I did not say you personally suggested they lie. What I said was -

Why would you people make this family feel that they had to lie about their heritage, to hide it in order to be accepted by the BSA?!

If families in your unit are made to feel that they must hide their religion to be accepted that is not a good thing. If it was just 1 family, it might just be that they are very sensitive, but you have 2 families who are afraid to be open about their faith, and, according to your posts, have felt intimidated about this for years. That is not a good situation, and is something I would not have put up with for a week, let alone for years. For my family, I would have found a unit that was more diverse and welcoming of different cultures. I would hope that the unit's leaders (Cubmaster/Scoutmaster) would put some kind of diversity programing into their schedule as soon as possible to make sure that no other family feels that way again.

She's contacted P.R.A.Y.,

Pray publishing does not have any Native American religious emblem program info. While it is a very good resource, it does not cover non-Christian religions well. They will most likely recommend that the boy do the "God & Family" program which is a Christian program & has nothing to do with Native Americans of any kind.

From what I understand, the Navajo religion is basically their way of life, and not something separate. I do not think they have anything like a religious emblem program. However, if they do, the place he should contact is his Tribal Council, not P.R.A.Y. Publishing. If their is some kind of program available, the Tribal Council will be able to give his family information on it & who to contact in his area.

We're also hoping that she (with our support) will take this as high as she can and get BSA to have a "Traditional Native American" for an actual emblem of faith that can be worn on their uniform.

Again, I repeat, these are NOT BSA programs. BSA can NOT create a "Traditional Native American" program or emblem. ALL that they can do is to approve one that the Navajo Tribal Council has already created. If there is no Navajo religious emblem program already in existence, the BSA can not create one for them.

I thought I could come here for help with this, and all I got was grief.

I am sorry that you feel that way. All we are trying to do is understand the problem & offer some insight from our own perspectives.

BelieveInScouting

06-25-2007, 06:56 PM

I did not say you personally suggested they lie. What I said was -

If families in your unit are made to feel that they must hide their religion to be accepted that is not a good thing. If it was just 1 family, it might just be that they are very sensitive, but you have 2 families who are afraid to be open about their faith, and, according to your posts, have felt intimidated about this for years. That is not a good situation, and is something I would not have put up with for a week, let alone for years. For my family, I would have found a unit that was more diverse and welcoming of different cultures. I would hope that the unit's leaders (Cubmaster/Scoutmaster) would put some kind of diversity programing into their schedule as soon as possible to make sure that no other family feels that way again.
<---snipped--->
I am sorry that you feel that way. All we are trying to do is understand the problem & offer some insight from our own perspectives.

I guess it all boils down to maybe we're not reading each other's posts thoroughly.
Neither of these families are in my own Unit. One is in a Unit that's nearby, and the other is in a Unit on the total opposite side of the District from me. Just about the only time we see each other is when we all work Cub Day Camp together.

The Wiccan youth opened up to me when he and I and several other Boy Scouts were discussing religious diversity because an adult friend of mine is doing that for one of her tickets in Wood Badge. I'm thankful he trusted me enough to open up to me...

My Navajo friend - I've known her for several years and always knew she was fulll Navajo, but we never discussed faith/religion. I find it ironic that this year at the end-of-day-camp party she began to talk about her son's apprenticeship with their Tribal Medicine Man... and it just went from there.

I guess you all think that I'm just out there hunting down these people or something...

I did do just what you you said: I started my own unit a few years ago and the one thing we 'specialize' in is diversity of all kinds - religious, cultural and mental - we have several special-needs boys in our troop... and ........ we're not chartered by a church :)

... I wish both of these families I know could come join our troop - one still may, the other unfortunately lives too far away...

1st Mate

06-25-2007, 07:45 PM

Now you are going to think I am picking on you but I am really not. I believe you are trying to do the right thing you are just not sure what that is, so forgive me if this comes off badlly but what training have you had. I ask this for a few reasons.

You do not seem to understant the membership requirements, specifically the Declaration of Religious Principles, and if you are leading a scouting unit that is a prttey important thing you should understand since you are signing youth membership applications.

You also made a comment about advancement that raises some questions. Then there was this statement which I do not get at all.

I started my own unit a few years ago and the one thing we 'specialize' in is diversity of all kinds - religious, cultural and mental - we have several special-needs boys in our troop... and ........ we're not chartered by a church :)

There are a couple things in this statement I do not understand. I have never heard of any adult having "their own" Scout unit. But what bothers me more is the second half. Are you saying that units chartered by a chuch can't be diverse? If that is not what you meant what exactly were you trying to say? What do see is the relationship between diversity and the type of chartering organization?

Any clarity you can add to this would be appreciated.

miscoutmom

06-25-2007, 11:44 PM

I'm glad to see that there is diversity in "higher power" recognition within the BSA. Whether the person being Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Wiccan or of American Indian belief. I think that if the BSA were not to open up and recognize the faiths of the US, they would fail to accept why we are here in the first place. Our journey to America was based on being able to practice whatever belief we follow freely without persecution.
I'm interested to know... What if I have a Scout that doesn't attend church and doesn't have any religeous training. He accepts the presence of a higher power, but is non practicing of any specific faith.

Jenny

1st Mate

06-26-2007, 12:44 AM

The BSA position is explained in the Excerpt from the Declaration of Religious Principle which is found on the inside front cover of every youth and adult application. When a parent or volunteer signs that application it says that they have read and understood the attached information.

Basically it is an understanding between the applicant and the BSA that the member's family will give definite attention to a religious life.

The BSA is saying that since you accept that there is a higher power then you should purposely strive to fullfill your personal duty in your faith, whatever that faith is.

the BSA is open to all faiths regardless of what name you use for God
as long as your faith has values that are compatable with the values of the scout law and the purpose of the BSA.

BelieveInScouting

09-10-2007, 06:18 PM

Navajo President Joe Shirley, Jr., wishes young Boy Scout
success in quest to have his Navajo beliefs acknowledged (http://www.navajo.org/images/pdf%20releases/George%20Hardeen/Aug07/Navajo%20President%20Joe%20Shirley,%20Jr.,%20wishe s%20young%20Boy%20Scout%20success%20in%20quest%20t o%20have%20his%20Navajo%20beliefs%20acknowledged_A ug9.pdf)

:)

Navajo Boy Scouts work to establish Native emblem (http://www.navajohopiobserver.com/main.asp?SectionID=35&SubSectionID=47&ArticleID=6039)

:)
Cub's badge of honor (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/news/clermont/orl-navajo0807sep08,0,2066400.story)

:)

All the articles are about the same kid - but it's all over the country. I've seen it in Washington Post, Houston Chronicle, etc...

It's wonderful :D

miscoutmom

09-22-2007, 08:04 PM

I'm glad to see that soon he can apply a badge to his shirt that he had sooo much involvement with.

Jenny
Troop 744 :cool:

ScoutmasterJerry

09-24-2007, 10:42 AM

1st Mate brought up the Declaration of Religious Principle. I think this is interesting and I would put money on the fact that many Leaders and Scouts have no idea it is even on the form, let alone a document of the Boy Scouts of America.
You can read more about it here (http://www.bsalegal.org/duty-to-god-cases-224.asp).

I would also like to know of the a unit that is "my own" and which of the 8 methods are you "Specializing in".
Diversity, while it is extremely important, should not be a total focus.
In my opinion, when you limit your focus on this it takes away from making everyone feel the same.

The religious emblems program is there to allow the Scout and Scouter to enhance his faith. Like the Declaration states:

"Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life."

All of the Religious emblems are awarded by the Church or organization not the unit. The unit may present the award, but it comes from the Church etc.

I am not sure if I just threw fuel on a fire or was helpful.. I hope it was the latter.

Happy Scouting!

1st Mate

09-26-2007, 12:37 PM

I would like to address a comment from miscoutmom's last post.

While the Scout might soon have a religious recognition he can put on a shirt, he will not necessarily be able to put it on a BSA Uniform Shirt. While any religion may create an award program, it is not automatically approved for display on the BSA uniform.

Once the religious organization establishes its requirements for their award, they submit it to the BSA for approval to display it on the BSA uniforms.

There is a precedent for the BSA to disapprove of the award requirements and to reject the award for uniform display.

You must remember that these are not BSA awards, they are awards that are created and offered by outside organizations that the BSA may or may not allow displayed on the BSA uniforms.

Nuts4Scouts

09-26-2007, 06:25 PM

From what I can tell from the various articles I have read, the Scout, his parents, and the powers that be in the Navajo Nation, are all working on meeting the requirements of, and getting approval from, BSA National.

There are a lot of hurdles that have to be crossed, getting the content approved is probably the least of them. Getting the required number of units is going to be quite a bit harder. Hopefully, the Scout and the Navajo Nation will not drop this emblem if they fail to meet the BSA requirements to have it approved for BSA uniform wear.

While the emblem may not get approved to wear it on the BSA uniform, Navajo youth all over the country will still have it available for them to earn.

That in itself is a BIG accomplishment.

miscoutmom

09-28-2007, 06:41 PM

1st Mate brought up the Declaration of Religious Principle. I think this is interesting and I would put money on the fact that many Leaders and Scouts have no idea it is even on the form, let alone a document of the Boy Scouts of America.
You can read more about it here (http://www.bsalegal.org/duty-to-god-cases-224.asp).

"Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life."

I'll admit... Until it was brought up here, I didn't know it stated that on the form. I realize that I risk being flamed here for admitting that... and also stating that I don't attend church or take my son. I have a long story and personal reasons why I don't attend anymore.... and compounded by the fact that with Jacob's impairments, the concept of God is lost on him. <he attends a small Christian daycare after school and has some exposure to religous discussion>.
Truly, I, like most parents.. signed his name and info on the front of it, paid the amount I had to.. and got him a uniform. I was thankful that he could be in a supervised environment that would help his social skills. That is all I ever wanted out of Scouting for him... everything else he's achieved is icing on the cake to me.

Jenny
Troop 744 :cool:

PS.... I think it would be incredibly wrong for BSA not to allow the emblem on the uniform officially. For so many other faiths to be recognized officially, it would be wrong to not include that of the Indian Nation faiths.

Nuts4Scouts

09-28-2007, 07:11 PM

PS.... I think it would be incredibly wrong for BSA not to allow the emblem on the uniform officially. For so many other faiths to be recognized officially, it would be wrong to not include that of the Indian Nation faiths.

It is not just an arbitrary decision on BSA's part. They don't simply sit down and say today this one gets recognized and this one does not.

There are specific criteria and specific requirements that MUST be met before ANY religious emblem is approved for wear on the BSA uniform. All of the other faiths that have "approved" religious emblems have met those criteria and requirements.

What would be "incredibly wrong" would be for BSA to make arbitrary exceptions and approve a religious emblem ONLY because of the religious organization involved.