Naval Academy Merit Badge Jamboree

[Advancement Chair Mom]

Several boys from our troop attended the Naval Academy Merit Badge program in January of this year. The boys were handed back the blue cards while on the bus return home. My dilemma is what to do with the blue cards. Each boy was told they earned the merit badge. Each card was stamped (US Naval Academy) on the "Applicant's Record" side. Each card is marked "complete", but without any details written. On the reverse side of the card THERE IS NO COUNSELOR SIGNATURE OR DATE! I brought the cards to my council, and was told "The boys must be lying because these are not complete" I find it very hard to believe that 9 over achieving boys, some of which completed many requirements before going to the academy, did not complete 1 merit badge between them.
HELP!!!!!:confused: :confused: :confused:

[ScoutmasterJerry]

Just like Summer Camp.. the Blue cards are nothing more than an application to work on the Merit Badge.
So- When you get the Blue cards back from camp.. you (NOT THE SUMMER CAMP) credit the Scout with completion of the Badge.

So just give the 9 boys credit for the badge using whatever you use to track advancement....
Have your Scoutmaster sign the cards.
Put a slash thru the requirements section and date it complete.

Done.

This is completely within the program and solves the situation with a few simple pen strokes.

DO NOT MAKE THE BLUE CARDS OUT TO BE THE BE ALL END ALL of the Merit Badge earning process.
The Blue Card is replaced by the Merit Badge Certificate upon completetion. The certificate is what accompanies the Scout to the Eagel Board not Blue cards.
And it is not a Board of reviews place to challenge the completion of a Merit Badge, Rank, or other award.
Once the Unit leader signs off.. it is done, not to be reviewed, retested, or taken away.

I have to ask... Why did you bring them [the Blue Cards] to the Council? Blue cards are kept with the units records not the Councils. It is the units job to process Merit Badges etc. The council just maintains records, but the units records are what count. Unit records should match the Council record. This can be done using the Internet advancement (https://scoutnet.scouting.org/iadv/UI/home/default.aspx)tool. What you tell the Council is what the Scout is credited with.... not the other way around.

Surly you had an adult leader or two that went on the USNA Merit Badge trip. They can attest to the completetion of the Badge.

The Council office and Scout Shop MUST take the Unit leaders word and paper work. It is NOT for them to decide who earned what.
With the new Internet advancement (https://scoutnet.scouting.org/iadv/UI/home/default.aspx)tools, YOU can update Merit badge information as well as Rank awards.

[Advancement Chair Mom]

Thank You,
Unfortunately it is not that easy.

First, in our district, and council, the blue cards, along with the certificate, and a copy of the advancement report go with the scout to the Eagle BOR.

Second, no, we did not have a leader in our troop attend the USNA. These scouts went with a contingent from our council.

Third, I went to the council level with this because no one in our troop, or district knew what to do. It was at their suggestion that I go to council.

The requirement section of each card has a slash mark going through and is marked complete. There is also a stamped USNA on the requirements section. What they are missing is the name, address and signature of the merit badge councilor. Now my problem is, if it is considered complete when the mbc signs off on the card, is it complete when there is no signature. According to someone who is higher up in our council, no. That is not fair to the scout.

Now, should I just shut up and find mbc's for each individual merit badge, and just have them sign it? I have started to ask for this within the district. Unfortunately I have found one mbc who is not willing to sign on something he did not work with the boys on. I do not blame him for this.

It is just a bad situation, that there does not seem to be an answer for.

[ScoutmasterJerry]

At a risk of being a smart mouth....

Its too bad that your higher units do it wrong. They are not allowed to add requirements nor take requirements away.
There is no requirement to bring a merit badge application to a Board of Review.

The BSA has set the requirements and process.. www.nesa.org has the packets that are to be used.. not modified... for the Scout to earn his Eagle.
It specifically outlines the process.

Simply put.. your Council is not doing iut correctly or I would actually guess that your District advancement Chair is not informed.

Good luck to you.. because the answer really is that simple.

[pauldfischer]

I would agree with Scoutmaster Jerry, the solution is simple

If the requirements section contains the notations complete, and a stamp clearly Identifying the approving person (Organization) then the requirements have been met. (I would enter the address of the navel academy,the correct date) and process.

BTW I would also have had a problem if someone at council called 9 of my scouts liars and implied or said that they were attempting to do something dishonest. and by extension the Navel Academy.

I like others do not understand the need for the Blue cards to go to district , or council. That is a troop/boy document. When completed they to go to the Troop Advancement Chair for review, and then to be used to process the advancement paperwork for the certificate. The boy keeps one piece, the merit badge counselor keeps one piece and the advancement chair returns the finial piece to the boy for his own records after processing.
As far as using for the eagle BOR. the only use I have seen of the blue cards is to resolve a dispute as to when or if earned when council,or troop records do not agree, and this is normally caught when the eagle paperwork is reviewed prior to submission (again entirely within the troop).

With Respect.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Its too bad that your higher units do it wrong. They are not allowed to add requirements nor take requirements away. There is no requirement to bring a merit badge application to a Board of Review.

This is true. Nowhere in BSA documents does it state that the Merit Badge Blue cards must be brought to an Eagle BOR.


The certificate is what accompanies the Scout to the Eagel Board not Blue cards.

Actually, this is also adding to the requirements. Nowhere in BSA documents does it state that the Scout must bring anything, except himself, to any BOR, including Eagle.


Advancement Chair Mom, if you are concerned, contact the SM of the council contingent and find out what is being done for the rest of the boys on the trip.

If your council is planning on disallowing the Merit Badges for all of the boys attending then try giving the Naval Academy a call and talking to the person in charge of their Merit Badge program. Perhaps a letter to the boys attending stating the work was completed would help with the documentation.

Is the Academy in your council? If it is, than I find it even more strange than I originally thought, that the council would react the way it did.

[ScoutmasterJerry]

You are correct Nuts.. The Certificates are not required to go to the Board. I have been told by some Scoutmasters that they have their Boys (and we do this too) keep all their cards in a binder and take it with them, just in case there is a question. Which really does not matter in the long run, the board can not retest or ask for anything more.

You are correct.

[Apache Bob]

I know that everyone wants to be fair and make sure the boys get the merit badges they have earned.
I have seen the blue cards treated in different ways in each Council I have been in. The Council can change the rules. I said that wrong. The Council Advancement Committee can modify the rules as they see fit.
Isn't it a shame that some adults are more concerned with following the rules and regulations to the letter and forget what the program is about. And I am not saying the rules etc should not be followed but some adults are more concerned with regulations instead of the boys (not everywhere but sometimes).
Comments

[WB Bear]

Maybe I am misunderstanding your meaning but following the rules and regulations BSA has set are fair and they are also a necessity. It is about what the program is about. We must not take any shortcuts; it is a disservice to the program and also to all of those who have followed the rules for the past 97 years.

Neither the Merit Badge card nor the blue cards are required at the BOR. The contents of the Eagle application must be verified by the council service center. The council advancement committee or its designee must have made contact with the references list on the application. Once all that is verified and the application and project workbook are appropriately signed it is sent to the Eagle BOR chair to set up the board. So at the time of the BOR the board will have all the correct and pertinent information so at that time there isn’t any question about MBs. There is no need for the candidate to bring anything.

The boys only record they have received merit badges is from the card/certificate they received when they were awarded the badge. That card is obtained after the SM approves the completion; it goes through the Troop advancement committee and then signed and dated by the SM.

Blue cards are what are typically used for MB. However different form are used at summer camps, MB Fairs, etc. As long as the SM has documentation from a MB counselor that all the requirement have been successfully completed.

[Apache Bob]

WB Bear, I understand and agree with your comments about the blue cards and national policy. You should be greatful to be in your Council.
I went from memory (my wife says that I have an excellent memory - it's just short) when I wrote may last comment. Since reading yours I have checked with one of my Council Eagle Board Scouters.
In our Council the Scout must come to his Eagle Board with either his blue cards or his Troop's records on his advancement. Without one of these at the Eagle Board he will not be reviewed. End of story.
Yes, the Council office checks the paperwork but in many cases they miss checking items so our Council Advancement Committee has made checking the blue cards and/or Troop records at the Board mandatory.
To me the blue cards are used as the Scout earns the merit badge and shows when he has completed it. The white card is given at a Court of Honor and is given by the Troop. That is the real proof that the boy earned the merit badge. Before the boy receives the white card the advancement paperwork is completed in the Troop and a copy goes to the Council. The Council then puts it into the computer system and the copy goes into the Troop paper file.
When the boy goes up for Eagle his Troop completes more paperwork and shows that the boy has the merit badges he needs. His Scoutmaster checks that paperwork and signs it. Therefore that should not be any more checking needed. Of course, Council checks it again.
With the Scoutmaster checking and the Council checking the Eagle Board of Review should not concern itself with the merit badges.
Would it not be wonderful if everything went as planned?

[WB Bear]

Apache Bob, I agree it would be great if all went as planned! I do feel fortunate that our council does go through and thoroughly check each merit badge on the application. If some discrepancies are found they can be dealt with at that time. Troop advancement records must be reported to the council. Troops also come and go unfortunately and their records do disappear.

Several years ago we had a new District Advancement chair come onboard. He was given BSA Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures book. He brought to the attention of the District Committee that there were some things, which were really not wrong but weren’t following the Eagle procedure as it was specified by National and changes were made. At the next Council Advancement committee meeting he brought it up and it was discussed. The other district too had some issues, again not wrong but weren’t exactly following National, and found all the other district had also deviated in some areas from National flow of the Eagle procedure. I must add there was any issues on the way the Council was verify the MB, they have always been very diligent with that.

You know I might add that so often when people are asked why they are doing something a certain way they reply with well that’s they way we always have done it. Trust me I have answered that myself in the past. But if you check into policies and procedures (things that are written) you’ll find that what is being practiced is different.

Out of curiosity, because we did have to deal with this issue some years ago, how do you handle the references on the Eagle application?

[Apache Bob]

WB Bear - I checked with my contact again to make sure and here's what he told me.
The Scout sends out letters (there is a sample in the Eagle kit) or the Scout may make up his own asking different people for a reference letter. The return reference letters are put in the packet.
At the start of the Eagle Board (before the Scout enters the room) the members of the Eagle Board review the packet, which includes the reference letters.
Hope this answers your question. If not let me know.
Since the subject has changed so much since this started should one be started with the subject of the procedures on getting Eagle?

[Nuts4Scouts]

According to the BSA the Scout should let his references know he is including them on his application. He can also be asked by his council to provide his listed references with a blank reference form and an envelope. But that is the extent of his contact with his references. The Scout should not be involved with bringing anything from his listed references to the Council Service Center or Council Advancement Committee.

The BSA also does not state that a Scout should have to bring anything, except himself, to his BOR. BSA states only that a BOR can expect a Scout to be neat and properly uniformed.

If your council is denying Eagle BOR's if the Scout does not appear at the BOR with blue cards or Troop advancement records, those Scouts denied BOR's are well within their rights to appeal.

All records should have been verified - first by the Troop, then by the council - before any Eagle BOR is scheduled. The signatures on the Eagle Application, both Unit's and Council's, mean that all items in it have been verified so, other than adding a requirement, what is the point of requiring Scouts to bring these things to their Eagle BOR's?

[WB Bear]

Your right we did get off the subject of the thread. The references were one of the areas we did had some different practices that were used in our districts. BSA Advancement Committee Policies and Procedure book say on the applications the candidate must provide a list of references. The candidate should have contacted them before including their names on the application. After the council verifies the information, the application goes to the Advancement Committee or designee, who is to contact the references listed either by letter, form or telephone checklist. The council determines what method is to be used.