Advancement Pilot Program

[Den5Pack457]

My Den is taking part in the Central Region's Cub Scout Advancement Pilot Program. It's a CD that has resources for all of the Cub Scout ranks that you follow. It's achievement based and not theme based at all.

I plan to post progress of my Den through the year and get feedback from others also using the pilot program. And, of course, feedback from our vetran cub scouters, too.

Unfortunately for me, I had already aquired all of the guides and program helps to conduct a successful Tiger Cub Program. I can still use those as reference since we're to follow the resource files to the letter as a minimum.

The program on the CD is outlined so that you can conduct two den meetings per month and earn the badge of rank in time for the Blue and Gold Dinner in February. Your den may meet more often than twice per month if that suits you. The program continues beyond the Blue and Gold Dinner in February, with the boys continuing to earn awards and recognition through the end of the school year. Some summer activities for dens are included with each program year.

Wish us luck!:)

[WB Bear]

I am wondering were to find info on that program? I'm in the Southern Region. Is that the "den meetings in a box” that I have seen? Something that does concern me is the fact of only 2 den meetings a month. I don't know what others think about that, but it seems troublesome to me. I also have an issue of den meetings focused only on advancement. I think we are missing the point of Scouting if we have advancement as a focal point.

[Den5Pack457]

Totally seperate from the "Den Meetings in a Box." This is a resource guide that takes the planning and guess work out of Den Management.

It drills down into exactly what you need for preparation and materials needed, ceremonies, gathering, opening, advancement, and closing.

Fortunately since we're Tiger Cubs, our third meeting is a "Go See It." But, for Wolf, Bear, and Weblos... that 3rd meeting could be variant, merit badge days for WEBLOS, Belt Loop/Pin days, or perhaps a field trip, too.

The biggest sell on this program is the higher percentage of progression for those who used the program. Another sell is the help it provides the new or over tasked Den Leader that haven't the time or ability to plan meetings.

They say this worked very well for the Bay-Lakes Council in Appleton, WI - who developed and tested it in 2005 with a 85% retention rate versus a 65% rate in previous years. In 2006, 12 councils tested it with a 20% rise in retention, too.

Here's the first thing that came up when I googled the key words:
http://www.cvc-bsa.org/advancement/csAdvancement.html

More to follow once our Den Meetings start! :)

[Nuts4Scouts]

This is a pilot program only. That means it is not out there in full production for everyone to use.

I have heard of it, and I do not like the concept.

If BSA goes this way they will have to re-write the entire Cub Scout program to eliminate "Family Involvement" as a method of Cub Scouting, because that is essentially what this will do. To me this is for leaders who are more interested in earning awards than in following the current program. Leaders who do not want the time and trouble of following up with their families to get them to work with their boys.

There are leaders out there now who do every achievement and all other work for every award, patch, etc, in the den because they claim that if they (the den leader) do not do it, it will never get done by the family. That is how this pilot got started. To be that is simply pandering to the idea of BSA standing for Baby Sitters of America.

Cub Scouting IS FAMILY. I feel that if families do not like that idea, and do not want to work with the program, than perhaps Cub Scouting is not the program for them.

Of course that would affect the bottom line numbers for BSA.

[Den5Pack457]

Great scouts think alike! The points Nuts4Scouts make were expressed at the training.

I was actually looking forward to using the program helps and planning a program with the parents. I will still use the helps as resources, of course.

When the concern was expressed about the parents involvement diminishing, a suggestion was to push the BSA Family Program for all it's worth. Great idea... it should be encouraged regardless. I know my family has completed quite a few projects over the summer, alone.

It's in my character to develop programs and implement with little outside influence other that guidelines to follow. To put my personal opinion on this pilot program with a metaphor - instead of cooking supper from scratch, I'm heating a frozen meal in the microwave. That TV dinner may taste okay, be satisfying, quick and EASY - but it will never be as good, tasty, and especially not as self-gratifying as my home cooked viddles that I took the time and effort to prepare and serve.

However, there is an alarming trend of parents out there that are real busy and some of those folks become den leaders to support their boys to ensure the Den and/or Pack won't go under. This Pilot program came to be to help those leaders that are not scouters, true-blue, and who were failing when it came to planning and execution of the program.

Unfortunately, I seem to be of the minority of parents who couldn't wait for their boys to be of age to join and volunteered right away without feeling begrudged, obligated, or intimidated into the position. I'm the type of leader who will stick with it, even if my boy get's burned out.

I'm going to keep an open mind about this pilot and see how it goes over the year. I will report back our progress and follies once we start the program up in September. Keep the posts coming! Great stuff so far, and I do appreciate the feedback.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Bill, since you are using this program with Tigers, where does that leave the Shared Leadership concept?

In my opinion, Shared Leadership is the best thing around to get parents involved in scouting from the get go.

The whole thing just seems rather contradictory to me. On the one hand BSA is pushing for MORE family involvement with this site and the new Parent Initiative and all. On the other hand they are piloting a program that will result in significantly LESS family involvement.

BSA needs to make up its mind!

[WB Bear]

I am a little perplexed with this program. It appears it is set up for only 2 den meetings a month focused only on rank advancement. It seems like the parental involvement it out of the loop. Retention of the boys in the program is crucial and maybe assures they advance in rank will assist with this. Of course if the boys are staying in that will tend to bring in other boys. But what about the parents and their involvement? Hopefully when the boys get fired up about Scouts they will bring their parents in and they can find out how much fun their boys are. The Centennial Quality Unit Award does have an area for increasing the adult volunteers.

Another issue is the planned programs. There is an abundance of program planning material available now. It also contains step by step program materials for meetings and actually the entire Scouting program. Are the leaders using that now?

I do believe Scouting is not about the advancement but it’s about the trail in their advancement. I also believe we really need to encourage having the family’s support. It’s better for our program but more importantly it is better for the boy.

There is a lot of educated time and effort put into developing programs by BSA and we need to give it our best. Only after we have done that can it really be evaluated.

[1st Mate]

I have not seen the actual program materials or leaders guide for this program so I will have to reserve my judgement.

I make it a personal goal to not talk about things I don't know about with the exception of politics.

Having said that, I am not so concerned at the Tiger level of two Den meetings a month but I would hope that it does not extend into Wolf through Webelos Dens as well. Two weeks is FOREVER to a boy this age, and they need more reinforcement of the things we are teaching than you can do in so few meetings.

It would seem from what little I have read so far that the goal is not to adjust the program to the characteristics of the parent or the scout, but to simplify the role of the Den Leader. Which I fear will only help lower the standards of leader selection in many Packs.

I do not want to see the importance of the traits of a scout leader minimized to the point where we can say "it's so easy that ANYBODY can do it."

I don't want just "anybody" given the task of teaching the values of scouting.

[Den5Pack457]

How I keep my Adult partners in the loop is something that I've been giving great thought. My plan is to get copies of the pilot resource guide for each adult partner. I have every intent to keep the shared leadership and have each team host and facilitate a month.

I'm going to seek permission from our Council Chairs for this pilot program to share at least the Tiger Cub Resource Guide with this forum so you can see, first hand, what I'm dealing with. I'll see them (Husband and Wife Team); at the Wood Badge pre-meeting this Saturday.

I still have three weeks to hash things out before we start our program year. I'm lucky enough to have motivated parents (so far); that are eager to help and are as giddy as their scouts to get started. I already have 5 Tigers signed up, and two more recruiting events to go.

[Kronscjg]

The first thing I want to say is that this is a pilot program and not everybody is using it yet but the people that have used it have found that pack and den retetion has gone up.

I am a second year leader and used program helps last year and I am working this year with wolf cubs in the pilot program.

Yes the program is structured but it does encourage the parents to work with their children for a common goal and keeps the parents involved.

Yes meetings are planned out as to what needs to be acomplished but there is also specific things the parents need to do at home with their children. And ecourages the parent to work on electives.

If you divided your meetings and use parents to help put them on, you can share with them a subject that you would like them to help with.

This is a great program and the boys and parents that I am working with enjoy it. It does involve some change of ideas but it motivates the parents and the boys to work together.

[Nuts4Scouts]

So, explain how the current program does NOT motivate the parents and boys to work together.

[Kronscjg]

I did not say the current program did not motivate parents. All I am trying to say is this is a good program. I find it very helpful I have done both and just like this better.

I understand that you may like program helps and prefer to use it. Either program that is used is a good program.

The bottom line of scouting is are the kids having FUN. This program works for me don't knock it until you try it:)

[Apache Bob]

Does anyone know when or if the pilot program is going to start on a nation wide basis?

From past experience once national starts a pilot program they have a good idea that it will work; therefore, you can bet that it will start sooner or later.

From what I have read I can only hope that the Cub leaders will be given some choice is the way their Den and Pack is run. I have seen several programs that are set up by well meaning adults who have not worked with cubs or boy scouts in several years. They have worked at a higher level that the Units and have forgetten what is like in the real world of a Den Leader. They mean well but have forgotten alot.

[Kronscjg]

BSA moves slow. From what I understand the Program helps is printed and ready to go for a number of years (3-5). They want to make sure this program works and will be testing it for a number of years

[cubbobwhite]

Raise your hand if you've actually seen the CD and read the material for this program. http://www.herman-mi.net/graphics/images/smiles/HappyFaceWavey.gif

[cubbobwhite]

Does anyone know when or if the pilot program is going to start on a nation wide basis?

From past experience once national starts a pilot program they have a good idea that it will work; therefore, you can bet that it will start sooner or later.

From what I have read I can only hope that the Cub leaders will be given some choice is the way their Den and Pack is run. I have seen several programs that are set up by well meaning adults who have not worked with cubs or boy scouts in several years. They have worked at a higher level that the Units and have forgetten what is like in the real world of a Den Leader. They mean well but have forgotten alot.
It has just been expanded to most of Central Region. My Council is allowed to ONLY have 20 DENS participating in this program.

[cubbobwhite]

There is still allot of family involvement within the program. There is something to be done at home just about every week, it is just written out as an "assignment" for the den leader to give out, rather than hoping the Cub and his parent(s) finish the achievements on their own.

[Den5Pack457]

Wow, quite a bit of action since I posted this. It's been going pretty good. Not only does it help me as the Den Leader, but it eases a lot of stress and planning on the Adult Partners, too.

It's kept us on track, and ALL of the Tigers will earn their Tiger Cub Rank by the Pack Meeting in January!!!

What will we do after? Well, we're working a strategy now to focus on Tiger Cub Electives, the Acdemic and Sports Program, and completing the BSA Family Program, too.

[Apache Bob]

Dear Den5Pack457 - how is it working for Wolf, Bear, Webelos 1 & 2 in your Pack? The same as in your Tiger Den?

[Den5Pack457]

Actually, only the Wolf and Tiger Den are working the pilot in our Pack. The wolves seem to be tracking, too. I'll know more at our next pack meeting.

[0462den5]

I am using the Pilot in my Wolf Den and with some minor tweaking, I find it to be very useful.

As it is a program, there are things that are required for the leader to do in order to ensure success. I have been giving a monthly newsletter, assigning homework, tracking our progress on a Cub Scout Advancement chart(not in the pilot but very helpful), and keeping the boys interested with fun activities, crafts and advancement.

I read the Cub Scout Program Helps (I still have my copy) and was quite intimidated at the prospect of putting on a production for the month based on a specific theme, coordinating with the other dens to make it work, and then trying to find a way to tie in the advancement. It's easy for a Veteran DL, but for someone with no prior DL experience or very little it is a daunting task.

I am glad the BSA is looking for ways to improve upon itself and make things (possibly) better for all. And if for some reason the Pilot does not become a reality, it was a very excellent attempt.

[Dan Pickett]

I am also using the pilot program in my webelos den with some minor adjustments. The boys are having more fun this year than we have had in the past. We did a campout in October and planning one in the late spring early summer. We are thinking about the Smokey Mountains for a good trip. Does any one know of a good Scout camp in this area?:p

[WB Bear]

Dan, I have a great idea for you. Check with the Troops around you and see what they have to say. Troops camp every month so they are well aware of what is around. Ask if you could bring your Webelos on one of their campout. There are some great advantages with going with them. It will give your boys the opportunity to get to know the Troop and to see if that is the one they want to go to when they transition into Boy Scouts. It will also introduce your boys to Boy Scout camping. They also can provide equipment for camping.

Developing a relationship with a Troop can be a great resource for you and your Den and Pack. The Pack can also be a great resource for the Troop. It will be a place to obtain new members and leaders for their Troop and a place where their Scouts can complete their leadership position requirements as Den Chiefs.

The percentage of boys who are lost in the Webelos to Scout transition is way to high. It’s a loss to the boys also, because that they won’t have the opportunity to continue to reap the benefits and the fun that Scouting has to offer.

[Dan Pickett]

Our pack has a wonderful relation with the troop and will go on a campout or two with them. We have a great camps to use here ion Okawvalley. We are looking to expand out of the midwest.

[Den5Pack457]

Well, it's all over with and Fast Tracks are the result of the hard work.