When is advancement?

[busy5mom]

Our pack likes to have the cub scouts advance ranks in Feb. at the Blue and Gold Ceremony. Considering we don't start den meetings until Sept. when school starts, this seems like a very short time to enjoy whatever their present rank is. Is this a common practice? Thanks:confused:

[Nuts4Scouts]

Cub Scouts do not advance in rank, per se. Not like Boy Scouts do.

Cub Scouts is an age & grade based program. Every Cub Scout "graduates" to their next Cub level at the end of the current school year (usually the end of May or beginning of June). BSA's computer program (Scoutnet) will automatically bump up all Cubs on June 1st each year.

This means that the Tiger that registers with a Pack at the beginning of September, will stay a Tiger until the end of his 1st grade year of school. At that time he will automatically "advance" to the Wolf level.

During the year, a Cub Scout can earn the Rank Award for whatever level they are currently in. Earning their Rank Award by the February Blue & Gold celebration is certainly a good goal for Cub Scouts to shoot for, and is perfectly doable. However, all awards should be presented to the boys as soon as possible immediately after they have been earned. Awards should never be held until a certain month or until all boys in a den have earned it. Awards should be presented when they are earned, weather in Nov, Feb, or May!

This means that if a Bear Scout & his family works hard all summer and fall, and completes all of the requirements for his Bear Rank Award by the middle of November, he should not be made to wait until February to receive it. He should receive his Bear Rank Award, with a proper, cool, ceremony at the very next Pack meeting (November or December's).

One last thing, even if a boy & his family never manages to complete the requirements needed to earn their Rank Award, the boy will still graduate to the next Cub Scout level as of June 1st. If he wishes however, he can continue to work towards his Rank Award for a little while in the summer, but he can not work on anything in his new Cub level at the same time. A Wolf can take until the end of June to finish his Wolf Rank Award, but he can not work on anything in his brand new Bear handbook at the same time.

I hope this helps to clear it up for you!

[WB Bear]

Packs typically try to award the ranks at their Blue and Gold Banquets. As it was mentioned the time frame from September till the banquet is a very doable time period to complete the requirements. Goal setting is a valuable tool in character development, which the Scouting program is about. It is important also for the leaders.

The banquet is usually the goal because it is the highlight of the Cub program year. Grandparents and other family members are usually in attendance. So it is much more rewarding for the boy to be recognized for his achievement in front of his family members.

[COR Trainer]

As Nuts4Scouting so aptly pointed out, a boy should receive any advancement earned as soon as possible after he completes the requirements. It should be as "immediate" as is practical. Waiting more than a month is unconscionable. Most packs present advancement badges, pins, etc. at the monthly pack meeting.This is an opportunity for each den to show the others and their parents what they have learned. This is an ideal time for all parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles to see what their son has acheived.

Formal recognition, on the other hand, is usually given at the annual Blue & Gold for all advancement and acheivements received by all the boys in the pack. Again, this is a time for the whole family to celebrate with their Cub Scout.

[kenpack328]

In our pack we shoot for rank by our March pack night which falls on the third week in every month. We save Blue and gold for Webelos 2 crossover.
If you have a den leader which plans things out before the year starts and makes sure everyone stays on task this is very easy to do. If some scouts fall behind for whatever reason we agree at the start of the year to assist the boys that are lagging and everyone will earn rank as a den. This has worked for us but may not work well for others. Last year we had a bear den that did not earn rank till final pack night in May.

[KrazyKat]

February is Scouting's anniversary month, so we set that as a goal for rank badges to be earned. This forces parents and Den Leaders to focus and come up with a plan to meet that goal. Sure some will be overly enthusiastic and get it done in three months, others it will take until May, but the goal leads to a plan and that, to me, is the important thing for both the Scout and the Den Leader. Plan the work & work the plan.
And yes, award badges as they earn them, just tonight I awarded 4 Arrows of Light at a Pack meeting. Sure, there will be a grander ceremony at the Blue & Gold, but they get to wear the achievements on their uniforms for a month or so before crossing over. And it seems like we award a Bobcat every pack meeting, and yes, truthfully, it gets old, but its brand new for that Scout - he gets to be center stage and he deserves it, no he's earned it.

Cubmaster, Den Leader, Pack Trainer, etc...

[Scouting Mom]

Our pack shoots for Blue and Gold. It's doable, but if someone runs into a snag, that's ok, they get it when they get it. We all need to keep it fun for the boys and not focus on a deadline. Afterall, boys join all the time, they can't all hit that deadline, especially if they only joined in December.

The only problem I see with this is the second year Webelos... If they get their AOL in February and crossover, the boys who don't do that get left out, especially if the WDL's son crosses over. Most WDL's in that position don't want to stay and work with the other boys.

[cubbobwhite]

Only Cubs who newly register in September are starting on their rank then. Otherwise they are starting after they finish their current grade - like in June. I would think those fellas would be finished with their rank badge long before Blue & Gold in February, especially if they have an active summer program.

I push for immediate recognition and if that means that a rank badge is being presented in October, so be it.

[Scouting Mom]

Afterall, boys join all the time, they can't all hit that deadline, especially if they only joined in December.

AND to prove this point.... we had a new Tiger join last night. B&G is in a week and a half. They've got until June.

[MomToEli]

We aim to have our Cubs achieve their Rank by Blue and Gold in February.

As a Wolf Leader, most of my boys will make it. It is funny to see which families seem to operate better under the pressure of a deadline :rolleyes: Those that don't get it all done will keep on working. I will make sure that all of the boys have some sort of award presented to them at the banquet. I provided the opportunity for the boys to earn their Astronomy belt loops just in case, which 7 of them completed. Unfortunately, you can provide the opportunities for the boys to earn recognition, but you can't be responsible for them being present when the opportunities are. The parents have to take SOME responsibility. Our Awards Chairman made a mistake last month, so we didn't have the correct belt loops and such at the last Pack Meeting, so we will have those as well.

As a Den Leader we are free to devise our own awards for the boys. We are going to present them with Good Conduct Awards - a gold medal, which we can get from the Scout store. We have really stressed good behavior - using a Conduct Candle, Den Rules, Treat Bags (=bribery!) for the Pack Meetings and the like. As a result, we have a really well behaved den and I want to reinforce that.

I am personally anxious to get beyond our basic requirements and focus more on Arrow Points and Belt Loops.

[Cubmaster Chris]

Our Pack gives out rank badges at our Blue & Gold, however we always have some boys that are behind the rest for some reason, so we give them their badges in March, April or May when they finish. We set this down at Round-up, so the parents know when the badge requirements need to be done.

As far as enjoying their rank, most of our Dens plan extended field trips for March-May and not a lot of sit-down Den Meetings. We've never had any complaints from the parents or leadership about the year.

[cubbobwhite]

Our Pack gives out rank badges at our Blue & Gold, however we always have some boys that are behind the rest for some reason, so we give them their badges in March, April or May when they finish. We set this down at Round-up, so the parents know when the badge requirements need to be done.

As far as enjoying their rank, most of our Dens plan extended field trips for March-May and not a lot of sit-down Den Meetings. We've never had any complaints from the parents or leadership about the year.
What about the fella who finishes up his rank work in October? Does he have to wait until February to get his badge? It is possible to finish it by then since he can start working on it in June of each year.

[Cubmaster Chris]

What about the fella who finishes up his rank work in October? Does he have to wait until February to get his badge? It is possible to finish it by then since he can start working on it in June of each year.
I know this is going to sound almost impossible, but we always worry about that and it has not happened in the 6 years I've been with the Pack.

Having said that, this may be the last year that we make the boys get their badges in February. Most of the DLs feel like they are rushing the Scouts to get done by February.

[twcrawford]

Our Pack gives the cubs their awards when they are earned but we do shoot for Blue & Gold. We don't necessarily hold our Blue & Gold in February either. Our boys get into the Pinewood Derby so much that this year we delayed Blue & Gold until the first of April during Spring Break at which we also held cross-over due to baseball interfering and also to help our new DL's become more comfortable with their new positions. Our Blue & Gold also is a Court of Honor for our Troop so the Cubs can see what they have to look forward to.

Officially Cub Scouts do advance at the end of May whether they have earned their rank badge or not so it doesn't matter if they make the goal or not as long as the Do Their Best. Some years the Program Guide doesn't include all of the requirements anyway so I as a Den Leader go through and make a calendar listing what the boys need to do while working with the Program Guide. Then after Christmas I meet with each parent and get them on board if they aren't already to complete what needs to be completed. The parents are the key to a boy achieving his Cub rank and arrow points so don't sweat any other boy but your own unless you are the DL. If you're the DL then enlist the parents' assistance. You'll be amazed at how fast a Cub can earn awards when he has his parents' attention.

TWCrawford
a scout mom and volunteer far longer than I will admit like my age :D .

[twcrawford]

Our Pack gives the cubs their awards when they are earned but we do shoot for Blue & Gold. We don't necessarily hold our Blue & Gold in February because our boys get into the Pinewood Derby so much. (This year we delayed Blue & Gold until during Spring Break at which we also held cross-over due to baseball interfering. This also will help our new DL's become more comfortable with their new positions through on the job training with a mentor DL.)

Officially Cub Scouts do advance at the end of May whether they have earned their rank badge or not so it doesn't matter if they make the goal or not as long as they Do Their Best. Some years the Program Guide doesn't include all of the requirements anyway so I as a Den Leader go through and make a calendar listing what the boys need to do while working with the Program Guide. Then around Christmas I meet with each parent and get them on board, if they aren't already, to complete what needs to be completed. The parents are the key to a boy achieving his Cub rank and arrow points so don't sweat any other boy but your own unless you are the DL. If you're the DL then enlist the parents' assistance. You'll be amazed at how fast a Cub can earn awards when he has his parents' attention.

TWCrawford
a scout mom and volunteer far longer than I will admit like my age :D .

[1st Mate]

Some things to consider...
The purpose of Blue and Gold is to celebrate AS A SCOUTING COMMUNITY the Birthday of Scouting. Our Birthday is in February (Feb 8th to be specific), imagine celebrating your birthaday months after it is past. Being a national program we could make a much bigger community impact if we ALL celebrated the birthday at the same time (at least during the right month!)

Sometimes it not could to try and do so much at one time. Blue and Gold is a good time to have a Birthday party and graduate Webelos. Some packs also use it to recognize the Charter organization and other special adult recognistions. But Primarily the B & G is supposed to be a BIG birthday party for the BSA.

The best time to recognize cub advancment is when they complet the requirements. There is no need to do them all at once and in fact that goes against the advancement method.

Speaking of going against the advancement method.... Please don't advance scouts that haven't completed the requiremnts. There is a big difference to doing your best and not doing them at all. This is a very bad practice at many levels. It destroys the benefit of the advancment method, it teaches a VERY bad lesson to the scouts, it poorly prepares them for the higher ranks where more is expected from them, and it certainly explains why some come to the Boy Scout level so ill prepared.

The cub scouts have PLENTY of time to finish the requirements when you have meetings and activities that are built around advancement requirements so that the scouts earn while playing the game of scouting.

Again at the Tiger, Wolf and Bear Levels any Akela (helpful adult) can approve advancement so not only get a parent involved in playing scouting with the boy, get grandma and grandpa involved, get his teacher involved, get the baseball coach involved. The more adults helping him to get rewards for doing and learning positive healthy things the better.

[Nuts4Scouts]

[Speaking of going against the advancement method.... Please don't advance scouts that haven't completed the requiremnts. There is a big difference to doing your best and not doing them at all. This is a very bad practice at many levels. It destroys the benefit of the advancement method, it teaches a VERY bad lesson to the scouts, it poorly prepares them for the higher ranks where more is expected from them, and it certainly explains why some come to the Boy Scout level so ill prepared.

Cub Scouts & Boy Scouts advance differently. In Cub Scouts the rank award is just that - an award that is earned based on what level the boy is in. Cubs do not change levels once they earn their rank award. Cub levels (ranks) are strictly grade/age based. Cubs "advance" or "graduate" to the next higher rank level at the end of their school year. BSA's computer network, Scoutnet, advances ALL Cub Scouts (except those in an LDS unit) every June 1st - even if the boy has not earned his rank award for his current rank level.

The cub scouts have PLENTY of time to finish the requirements when you have meetings and activities that are built around advancement requirements so that the scouts earn while playing the game of scouting.

Actually, if you follow the Cub Scout program as BSA has written it, all of your den meetings and activities are not supposed to be built around rank requirements. Some can be, certainly. There are some requirements at each level that work nicely into a den meeting, but not all. Per BSA, MOST of the Cub Scout (not Webelos) rank requirements (and even elective requirements) are meant to be done at home. Working at home with family members on rank requirements helps to strengthen family understanding. Family understanding is one of the purposes of the BSA Cub Scouting program & family involvement is one of it's methods.

Your den meetings should be centered around the month's theme & your den's involvement in the monthly Pack meeting. They should be fun & include games & songs. They should teach the boys to work together & work with adults. They should teach leadership. If they have the boys completing some requirements toward their rank or another award that is great too, but it is also OK if they do not.

You are right, Cubs have plenty of time to complete their requirements for their rank award. However, it is not the den leaders job to force them to do it. Nor is it their job to hand out unearned awards. Trust me, if a boy fails to earn a rank award one year, the next year he will usually make certain he finishes on time!

[1st Mate]

Please see the Advancement Committee Guide /Policies and Procedures pages 18-21. It is very clear that the cubs are still required to complete ALL requirements. This is why it is important to know and use the resources that the BSA makes readily available for our use.

While I agree they advance to the next program level automatically according to age or grade NOTHING in the cub program suggests that they achieve the rank award without doing ALL the requirements to the best of their ability.

In the Program Helps it even tells you what achievements the den activities lead to.

No, it is not strictly the Den leaders responsibility. The BSA program actually gives the cub advancement responsibility primarily to the pack committee, but parents, den leaders, and others, all play vital roles in it.

While taking part in the songs, skits, crafts, and other elements of the monthly theme the cub gets started on many of the achievemnts he will do to EARN the rank.

The standard for determining the completion of the requirement is "do your best" but the cub scout still has to "DO". You will not be able to instill the values that are the goal of the advancement method by giving the rank awards away when all the achievements have not been completed. Nor can the cub be ready for more advanced levels of the skills if no one has taught them the previous level first.

Do not confuse automatically advancing in the program level with automatically earning the rank recognition. These are two entirely different things. He gets one due to age or grade, the other is earned when the requirements are satisfied.

Unless someone can show another BSA resource that states something contrary to the Advancement Committee Guide then we need to accept it as being the correct authority on the BSA advancement program.

[Nuts4Scouts]

1st Mate quote:
While I agree they advance to the next program level automatically according to age or grade NOTHING in the cub program suggests that they achieve the rank award without doing ALL the requirements to the best of their ability.

Nuts4Scouts quote:
You are right, Cubs have plenty of time to complete their requirements for their rank award. However, it is not the den leaders job to force them to do it. Nor is it their job to hand out unearned awards.

Where did I suggest that a Cub Scout receive his rank award without doing ALL of the requirements?

What I DID say was that it is not the responsibility of the Cub Scout Den Leader to cover ALL of the requirements for their Cub Scouts rank award IN THE DEN MEETINGS. Yes, they can cover SOME. The Cub Scout Program Helps does indeed tie in some requirements to den activities. And, as I stated : There are some requirements at each level that work nicely into a den meeting

The BSA program actually gives the cub advancement responsibility primarily to the pack committee

Actually, according to BSA, the Pack Committee has little direct responsibility over individual Cub Scout advancement. The responsibilities of the Pack Committee Advancement Chair are as follows (from the BSA National website as I do not have any hard copy handy) -


*Have a working knowledge of the Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout advancement plans.
*Help plan and conduct induction and advancement recognition ceremonies.
*Arrange for Tiger Cub graduation ceremonies with the Cubmaster and Tiger Cub den leader.
*Train parents, guardians, and pack committee members in ways to stimulate Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout advancement.
*Arrange for Webelos graduation ceremonies with the Cubmaster, Webelos den leader, and Scoutmaster.
*Promote the use of Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout den advancement charts to record advancement in the den and as an incentive for advancement.
*Promote the use of den doodles as a stimulus for advancement.
*Collect den advancement reports at pack leaders' meetings for use when ordering badges and insignia from the local council service center.
*Promote Boys' Life magazine as an aid to advancement.
*Help build or obtain advancement equipment for use in making advancement ceremonies more effective.
*Promote the wearing and proper use of uniform and insignia.


According to the way the Cub Scout program is written, the responsibility for completing the majority of the Cub Scout rank award requirements lies primarily with the parents.

I do know & use the resources the BSA makes available. I am not confusing awards with levels. Cub Scout Den Leaders can offer as many opportunities to complete requirements as possible, but, in the end, if the parents do not work on award requirements with their sons, their sons will not receive their rank award for that year. They will, however, still advance to the next program rank level at the end of the school year. It is not necessary to earn the rank award to move to the next level.

[1st Mate]

It was not you who said it nuts it was twcrawford. But in rebutting me it appeared you were supporting his actions.

A quote from the Advancement Committee Guide (PAGE 21). "Administration of the Cub Scout Advancement program is primarily the responsibility of the pack committee, with the support of the district advancement committee and commissioner staff.""

It then goes on to mention the roles that parents, and unit leaders play in advancement as well.

But making sure that everyone knows and does their part rests with the Pack committee.

I agree that the program puts "completing" the Tiger to Bear requirements in the hands of the parents, but it also puts the "STARTING" in the hands of the Den and Pack leaders. Wouldn't you agree with that?

I believe we are in agreement that the scout moves to the next Den level automatically but must earn Rank advancement. The difference seems to be our terminology as to what is rank advancement and what is merely a program level.

The scout may be in a Wolf Den, but he does not "advance" to the Wolf Rank until he completes the rank requirements. At the end of the school year he moves into a Bear Den, but he does not recieve the Bear Rank until he completes the requirements, and so on. The Advancement Report for the rank is not submitted when the scout changes program levels but only once he "advances" in rank by completing the requirements.

The original question in the thread was when does the cub advance. The only really correct answer is "once he has completed the requirements". Is it not?

[Nuts4Scouts]

It seems to be a matter of terminology.

Would you call a boy who is a 2nd grader, in a Wolf Den, who has not yet earned his rank award, a Tiger? Of course not. All boys in a Wolf Den are Wolves.

When they complete the requirements they earn their Wolf Rank Award. That does not mean that they then "advance" to Wolf. They are already a Wolf. They have simply completed their "Wolf Trail" to earn their Wolf award.

Some Packs, like busy5mom's, the original poster, "advance" their boys to the next level once they have earned their current rank award. That would mean that a 2nd grade Wolf, who earns his Wolf rank award in February, would then "advance" to Bear and start to work on Bear requirements.

That is not correct.

The boy would still be a Wolf & should work on Wolf electives and other fun things until the end of his 2nd grade year. At that time he would move to the Bear level & could begin to work on Bear rank requirements.

[1st Mate]

I agree.

So to summarize...In Cub Scouts...

A Cub advances (earns the rank) when he completes all the requiremments.

He should recieve the recognition as soon as possible, but it is not designed to be done any specific time other than by the end of the school year. (there are some exceptions)

He begins a different program level automatically at the end of the school year, not because he earns the rank advancement.

Blue and Gold is a Birthday Party for Scouting and should take place in February. It is not required or recommended that it be used for all the advancement recognitions.

Parents play a major role in working with their cubs on advancement achievments and except for Webelos should actively participate in the testing and approving the completion based on a standard of "Do your best".

Den leaders through a planned and organized Den and Pack program can get the Cubs started on most of their achievements for their rank advancement.

The pack committee is the primary responsible party for the administration of the advancement program.


This information and more can be found in the following resources.
The Cub Scout Leader Handbook
The various Cub Scout Rank Handbooks
Program Helps
Leader Specific Training
The Advancement Committee Guide

[Scouting Mom]

The terminology CAN be confusing to some. The difference between the Tiger, Wolf, Bear and Webelos dens vs. having earned that rank.

For example...

At our March pack meeting, we had 3 new Cub Scouts. Two of them got to the meeting early and our brand new CM, who is a Tiger parent, got them started filling out applications. But there was some confusion over what den they were supposed to be in. When I walked in, (committee member/Bear parent/wife of CC) the CM turned to me and said, "they'd be Webelos, right?"

Turns out, both boys are in the 3rd grade, but since the boys who'd been around at least a few months have all earned their Bear rank, the new CM was thinking there'd be no point getting them started working on Bear rank, because they'd only have until June 1. Plus, one of the boys is already 9, and the new CM, coming from a homeschooling background where grade levels mean little, was confused and inclined to argue that age could be the deciding factor. (an argument he'd lose because the rules say "7 or 1st gr" for Tiger, so by extension it would be "9 or 3rd" for Bear.)

I explained that they'd still be Bears, based on their grade, even if the one boy did just turn 9. That they'd work as best they could toward rank, but all the boys would move up together as of June 1st. They first looked as if to argue, but then one of the mothers said, "My son is joining to be with his friend, H." I could tell that the new CM, who hasn't had a chance to learn all the names had no idea who H was. He got this look of panic, as if hoping I would say that was ok, because he knew that I knew the rules, but he didn't want to lose these boys. H is a Bear, so that was that.

These new boys are in the Bear den. They may or may not earn their Bear rank. It doesn't matter. They get to have fun with their friends (old and new) and get their feet wet with scouting before moving on to Webelos in June.

ON THE FLIP SIDE: We had a boy join in December, who was encouraged by one of our Bears but was in the 4th grade. They argued long and hard that he should be a Bear because he was only 8 (his b-day is late Dec). The Bear parents argued that he should be a Bear because he should be with his Bear friends who had recruited him. The arguement didn't end until everyone realized that although he was friends with two Bears, he was also friends with 4-5 Webelos who were in his class.

[1st Mate]

I am a little confused. Did he just turn 8 or 9 last December?

[Scouting Mom]

I am a little confused. Did he just turn 8 or 9 last December?The third grader turned 9 in January 2007. The 4th grader turned 9 in December 2006. They are only about a month apart, but the cut off date for school was December 31st