new scout uniform

[Apache Bob]

Has everyone seen the new Boy Scout uniform that is coming out this summer? What do you think of it? Any idea about the Cub uniform?
If you have not seen it go to: http://kudu.net/uniforms/BSA_newuniform.pdf

My information says it will be out about August 1st.

[Nuts4Scouts]

There is no information that the Cub Scout uniform is changing at all. So far it is ONLY the Boy Scout version.

The new uniform pieces can be mixed and matched with current uniform pieces. That might make for some interesting clashes of various green colors!

[WB Bear]

I had heard some talk about changes in the uniforming but hadn't seen anything until now. Thanks.

I have seen a problem with uniforming, or maybe better said a lack of uniforming, among both Scouts and Scouters. Hopefully these changes will help remedy that situation.

By the way the new uniform can be viewed at http://www.bsauniforms.org which is through the Scout Stuff site.

[ScoutShopGuru]

The Webelos will be transitioning into the new uniform and are still encouraged to put the red numerals on the new tan shirt as opposed to the new green on tan numerals to show that they are still apart of a pack and not a troop.

Currently, there will be no immediate changes to the Blue Cub Scout Uniform.

Also note that the current Boy Scout Uniform will remain official through the transition to the new one. Once official always official.

[Nuts4Scouts]

The Webelos will be transitioning into the new uniform and are still encouraged to put the red numerals on the new tan shirt as opposed to the new green on tan numerals to show that they are still apart of a pack and not a troop

Requiring the Webelos to change unit numbers from red to green when they cross to a Boy Scout Troop seems rather silly. Especially when the old and new parts are mix and match.

Edited to add that the rather LOUD plaid in both the hat and necker should be enough of a clue that they are Cub Scouts and not Boy Scouts!

[ScoutShopGuru]

Requiring the Webelos to change unit numbers from red to green when they cross to a Boy Scout Troop seems rather silly. Especially when the old and new parts are mix and match.

It's not required it's encouraged, much like how the tan shirt is not required for Webelos it is only encouraged.

[WB Bear]

I see from the profile that Guru is with BSA’s National Supply and should be in the know. I do wonder if there will be some official statement or recommendations of this disseminated when the new uniforms actually are rolled out?

I do think the change and the options is the fabric involved is great. We are coming upon the celebration of Boy Scouts 100th Anniversary and a new look to start out another century of Boy Scouts is a good idea.

Cub Scouts celebrated their 75th Anniversary a few years ago and Venturing is celebrating the 10th, this is Boy Scouts anniversary.

When a boy joins or transitioned into Boy Scouts he needs to wear the Boy Scout uniform. Cubs and Venturing Programs have their own uniforms and insignias. There is and does need to be a distinction between the programs.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Even though Webelos are still Cub Scouts, they are allowed to wear the tan/green uniform, and have been for a good number of years now. That is not changing with the new tan/green uniform.

There is currently, most definitely, a distinction in uniforming between the programs. Even in the tan/green uniform (new or old) the Webelos status as Cub Scouts is distinctly identified with the navy shoulder loops and the plaid necker and hat.

I still say "encouraging" Webelos to purchase and sew on red unit numerals for a year and a half, or less, then take them off and purchase and sew on green/tan numerals is silly and wasteful. Until such time as the BSA Insignia Guide is changed to reflect that all Webelos MUST have red numerals on their shirt, if the parents decide to purchase a tan/green uniform for their Webelos Scout, I will leave the decision on the color of the numerals up to them.

[ScoutShopGuru]

The idea behind using the red numerals for the Webelos is so that the parent's don't have to go out and buy the new numerals when they purchase the tan shirt, they can simply transfer over the patches from the blue uniform if the parent/unit chooses to put the Webelos in the tan uniform.

In addition, it could be stated that it would be silly and wasteful to encourage the parents to purchase the tan and green uniform for the Webelos and transfer all their insignia over to a new shirt when they're just going to have to take it all off in a year and a half anyway.

Never the less, Webelos is a transitional period from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts and it is recognized that for the convenience of the scout and parent BSA allows more flexibility when it comes to the Webelos uniform.

[WB Bear]

You know you are probably right. Those numerals cost about 80 cents each, that was really be a waste. The really bad thing is that it might take some time to find or start a Troop has the same number as the pack or he will get stuck with another 80 cents in a year or year and a half. If his Webelos Den decides to use a Den name instead of the Den number you will have to also find a Troop with the same patrol name and Troop number or you’ll also have to fork out $1.90.

[Nuts4Scouts]

None of Webelos families that I have known in the past 13 years have ever transfered all of their patches from the blue shirt to the tan shirt. Many want to keep the blue shirt as intact as possible so that it can be saved as a memento of their son's Cub Scouting days.

On the tan shirt, they will put on the basic patches, the ones that can transfer with them to Boy Scouts, and the Webelos Rank Badge - and that's about it. Most will not even transfer the den number even if they are not using a den name.

As for taking off the den name patch - not really necessary. The boys go into a new Scout Patrol. No reason why they can't name their Patrol the same name as their Webelos Den. It's up to the boys at that point.

[Frogman]

I agree that the cost is a bit, but we have it better than the Gisrl scouts do. each number for there uniform is $1.25. Which my oldest has had to change three times in two years ( due to moveing to a new troop and then promotion to juniors) I personaly like the new uniforms look as well as the material that they are made of.

Regards:

[ScoutShopGuru]

I could not agree with you more. When I myself was a Cub Scout, I kept my Blue Uniform intact in addition to my Webelos Uniform. When I crossed over into Boy Scouts a new uniform was purchased. It was really nice to have all my complete uniforms displayed at my Eagle Court of Honor.

Fortunately, my parents could afford to purchase a new uniform with every transition. However, for many others they aren't able to do that and they shouldn't have to either.

In general, when it comes to the insignia for the uniform you are looking at a minimal cost when compared to the other items that must be purchased. To purchase all new patches for a Webelos shirt you are looking at a cost of about $10, mostly depending on the cost of your Council Service Patch (CSP) which is typically the most costly.

In addition, I have always encouraged the units to custom order their numerals in one block. The numerals must be ordered in quantities of 12, however, individually they are more cost effective than buying each numeral individually. Most units will actually purchase the 3-digit numerals and keep a stock for the boys, and will then raise their membership dues by $1.50, to cover the cost of the patch.

[WB Bear]

Uniforming is one of the methods that BSA uses to accomplish its mission. I don’t understand the issues of not having a Webelos wear the correct uniform with the proper insignias. The cost is very minimal to keep the uniforming insignias correct.

[Nuts4Scouts]

I don’t understand the issues of not having a Webelos wear the correct uniform with the proper insignias.


I'm a bit confused. Where/when did ANYONE advocate that Webelos NOT wear the proper uniform or insignia?

[WB Bear]

Requiring the Webelos to change unit numbers from red to green when they cross to a Boy Scout Troop seems rather silly. Especially when the old and new parts are mix and match.

I still say "encouraging" Webelos to purchase and sew on red unit numerals for a year and a half, or less, then take them off and purchase and sew on green/tan numerals is silly and wasteful.


This was working on the premise that the new uniform is the Boy Scout Centennial uniform. Not the Webelos. These new numerals are for Boy Scouts, because it is the Boy Scouts 100th Anniversary and not the Webelos. The majority of the time when a boy crosses into a Troop it will not be the same unit number as his Pack. New numbers will have to be purchased and a very minimal fee. I don’t find see why it would be silly or wasteful to have to have red numerals on the Webelos shirt.

This is really a trivia matter and not worth an extended discussion. The key issue is that Cubs and Boy Scouts are 2 different age and ability programs. So often that distinction is not observed. I know of Packs that camp monthly, some that even have trailers full of camping gear and Troops that function like Packs.

Many things in Scouting are the same but there are different programs and we must know and observe where the differences are.

[Frank]

The Webelos will be transitioning into the new uniform and are still encouraged to put the red numerals on the new tan shirt as opposed to the new green on tan numerals to show that they are still apart of a pack and not a troop.Given that the new Boy Scout uniform is not yet available, what kind of encouragement is being given? Who's giving the encouragement, and where can one go to hear the specifics about it?

[Nuts4Scouts]

This was working on the premise that the new uniform is the Boy Scout Centennial uniform. Not the Webelos. These new numerals are for Boy Scouts, because it is the Boy Scouts 100th Anniversary and not the Webelos. The majority of the time when a boy crosses into a Troop it will not be the same unit number as his Pack. New numbers will have to be purchased and a very minimal fee. I don’t find see why it would be silly or wasteful to have to have red numerals on the Webelos shirt.

Actually the CURRENT tan/green uniform is a "Boy Scout" uniform too and the new uniform will be replacing it - at ALL levels - eventually.

Currently, the information from BSA is that ALL of the new AND old "Boy Scout" uniforms can be mixed and matched. You can wear old and new together. NOTHING in the BSA literature CURRENTLY states that the patches with red embroidery are for CUB SCOUTS ONLY. BOTH Boy Scouts and Webelos (Cub Scouts) CURRENTLY wear the SAME numeral patches. If a Boy Scout does not change to green numerals (when they become available) does that mean he is not wearing to correct uniform with the proper insignias?

Both the old AND new tan/green uniforms ARE "correct" uniforms for a Webelos Scout. And, until the BSA Insignia Guide , and not a poster in a forum, (sorry ScoutShopGuru), states that red numerals are ONLY for Cub Scouts and green numerals are ONLY for Boy Scouts, then EITHER red OR green numerals ARE "proper" insignia for Webelos Scouts (and Boy Scouts too).


BTW - Packs that camp monthly are not perverting the Cub Scout Program and acting like Troops. They simply have a GREAT, ACTIVE, outdoor program! I wish I could get our Pack outdoors every month!

[WB Bear]

This is really a trivia matter and not worth an extended discussion. The key issue is that Cubs and Boy Scouts are 2 different age and ability programs. So often that distinction is not observed. I know of Packs that camp monthly, some that even have trailers full of camping gear and Troops that function like Packs.

Many things in Scouting are the same but there are different programs and we must know and observe where the differences are.

An Outdoor program is great for the Cubs and must be a part. The point I am making is Packs that go camping every month and have camping, which obviously it is, as one of the main focus of their program surely aren’t able to spend much time delivering the rest of the program. Check you program helps booklets. Also after a Cub has been camping monthly for several years how excited about it will he be after become a Boy Scout? Unfortunately there are also Troops that function as Packs, by that I mean it is ran by the adults, not the boys.

As I mentioned before discussion regarding the coloration of the numerals is trivial and it really a mute point.

[ScoutShopGuru]

I really don't understand why this has become such a hot point of contention and why so many committed and dedicated volunteers to the organization are looking for ways to make this an issue.

I am a national employee of the BSA and will always have more current information when the BSA decides to make changes in the organization, it is my job to know what those changes will be.

I thought as if it would be beneficial to you if I would share the information that I have.

I can Guarantee, that National will be making an official announcement about the new uniforms through your Local Councils and National Scout Shops and will be changing ALL the publications that reference the Boy Scout uniform to reflect the changes to the uniform, which includes but is not limited to, the Insignia Guide.

It upsets me that I should have to defend the organization that all of you are equally, more, or less apart of than myself. You are certainly entitled to your opinion about the policies and operations of the organization; however, there is a time, a place, and a way to express it. What kind of message are you sending to perhaps that one parent who is researching scouting with hopes that maybe they will register their Boy and/or may be interested in becoming a volunteer much like all of you.

Every confrontation is a result of a break down in communication. I am simply trying to open up the lines of communication with the knowledge that I have coming from National and to answer questions and address the confusion that many may have.

Let it be known that I am not and will not serve as an official spokesperson for National. I have the same right to express my knowledge of scouting just as every one of you.

This is the last time that I will be posting about this topic and if anyone has a question for me that they feel I can answer then it is best to send me a private message.

[Nuts4Scouts]

What kind of message are you sending to perhaps that one parent who is researching scouting with hopes that maybe they will register their Boy and/or may be interested in becoming a volunteer much like all of you.

That we want to do things the right way.

That we care about giving the boys in our care a GREAT BSA program.

That a BSA volunteer can not (or should not) make up the program as they go along.

That BSA has very definite programs and policies that ALL of us here feel very strongly should be followed.

That, as a potential volunteer, I will not be simply thrown to the Tigers, Wolves, Bears, etc. That there are places to go to get information and plenty of literature from the organization to help me do a good job.

THAT is the message we are sending in this and other forums.

No one is asking you to defend BSA. No one is asking you to defend yourself.

We do appreciate the heads up. And while we do believe you are who you say you are, in reality, you could be anyone. And so could I.

The concept of new uniforms coming out has been making the rounds of the various Scouting boards for at least a year now. However, until something concrete came out, from National, it was still considered just a rumor. Maybe a very possible rumor, but a rumor none the less. With the official fliers and the ScoutStuff blurb, it is now no longer just a rumor.

Likewise, until something concrete comes out from National on the insignia issue, it is still a rumor. An interesting, very probable one, but still a rumor.

There is no need to take offense.

[WB Bear]

I totally agree with you Guru and I do appreciate your input as I do everyone else's. Things did get a bit off track.

Scouter are very passionate about the program and we must remember to keep a positive perspective in this forum and for that matter Scouting.

[FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER]

I just got a brochure from our local scout shop on the new uniform for Boy Scouts.
The whole uniform is going to change from the hat to the socks.
The new hat is going to be green with embroidered with the universal emblem on the crown.
The new shirt is going to be made out of poplin or canvas. The Choice is up to the individual. the shirt is going to have three hoop and loop closures. Two are breast pocket closures and one is on the sleeve.
The new pants are are either swithcback or canvas convertibles. They are now going to have to hemmed. They are also going to come in relaxed fix or regular fit.
The uniform belt is also going to change. It is going to be wider and in a forest green color. it is going to have a steel grey metal buckle with the universl emblem on it.
The shoulder loops are going to be forest green with the numerals being khaki and forest green.
The socks are going to be a diffeent color and style also.
It looks sharp
Now some of the drawbacks that I can see. With the side pocket on the shirt, the badge of office may be to big to fit the pocket and thus overlap onto the shirt. The trained strip is now going to go on the flap of the side pocket above the badge of office. The trained strip is now going to be redesigned to fit the pocket flap, so it is going to be smaller.
Finally, the cost of getting a new uniform complete will run between $90.00 to $100.00 per boy/adult. NICE CHUNK OF CHANGE.
I guess with all the changes, a new Insignia Guide is going to have to be published also.
OH YEAH! One other thing to know. As of August 1st, Merit Badge books are going to be printed in color. Not some BUT all.

Hope that his info is helpful to everyone.

Yours in Scouting,
Bob Klimas
Former Frustrated Scoutmaster:)

[Westergaard]

I will keep my current uniform, thanks.
Although, I do like the green and tan numerals and trained patch color.

[1st Mate]

Holy mountains out of mole hills Batman!

I cannot believe that we would see people making so much out of what color unit numerals a Webelos was wearing. If the reasons posted are representative of what some volunteers are thinking then lets look at those concerns.

(That we want to do things the right way.) Who said that either way was wrong? It seems clear to me from Guri's post that neither is wrong for the Webelos.

(That we care about giving the boys in our care a GREAT BSA program.) Please...a Webelos wearing one color numeral instead of another reflects that someone doesn't care about the scouting program????

(That a BSA volunteer can not (or should not) make up the program as they go along.) Unit numeral colors are not a program element it is a uniform feature, nothing more. Let's keep things in perspective here.

(That BSA has very definite programs and policies that ALL of us here feel very strongly should be followed.) Guru was clear that is was not a policy issue, it was a recommendation made simply to save parents time and money.


(That, as a potential volunteer, I will not be simply thrown to the Tigers, Wolves, Bears, etc. That there are places to go to get information and plenty of literature from the organization to help me do a good job.) Patience everyone, the uniform has not even been rolled out yet. Guru was knd enough to give you a little info in advance. We are taking a choice of unit number colors, for pete's sake most packs don't even support wearing a compltete uniform but we are going to be opickky about red and white or green and tan pack numbers????

(THAT is the message we are sending in this and other forums.) If this is the message that volunteers are sending then its a bad one. It is picky and inpatient and reflects poorly on the vast majority of volunteers who I am confident are able to understand what a "recommendation" is.

(No one is asking you to defend BSA. No one is asking you to defend yourself.)
And yet Guru was obviously put into that position on this forum.

While I appreciate Guru's attempt to help it now seems obvious that the best thing to do would be to wait for the official role out of the uniform and the supporting materials.

I do not think that some posters on Internet forums are are able to deal with small parts of the picture at a time.

[Nuts4Scouts]

Holy mountains out of mole hills Batman!

(That we want to do things the right way.) Who said that either way was wrong? It seems clear to me from Guri's post that neither is wrong for the Webelos.

I do not think that some posters on Internet forums are are able to deal with small parts of the picture at a time.

Actually Guru DID state that Webelos should NOT wear the new numbers.

It has nothing to do with small parts of a picture. It had everything to do with being attacked for giving my opion that making the Webelos wear red numbers was silly.

I still think it is silly. I also think knee high socks with shorts, and mini pockets on shirt sleeve are silly, a but hey, that's just me!

[1st Mate]

Actually Guru DID state that Webelos should NOT wear the new numbers.


Nuts, I find where you use the word "required", but I only find where Guru says "encouraged".

It would seem that Guru's comments were quite benign until you altered his words from encouraged to required. In an effort to help the forum know of a minor option Guru 's words were altered to create a controversy where none existed.

That hardly seems fair.

[Den5Pack457]

Well... the new uniforms have been out for a few weeks. For those who bought them, how do they fit, feel, maintain, etc? How much ($) did they run for everything?

I've seen a few scouters wearing them at round table and at the wood badge dinner. I didn't even notice until I got right up on them, and the first thing I noticed was the unit numerals and the left sleeve pocket

[Nuts4Scouts]

I have not bought one yet, but I have seen it on one of our new leaders. It looks nice, he said he likes it. I have heard both good and bad comments from others who have it though. I have a feeling it is a matter of personal taste and what you will be doing in it.

BTW - When you put together a tan/green Webelos uniform on ScoutStuff, it gives you the tan/green Centennial numerals, NOT the red ones.

[T23]

Scouts in our troop are very interested in the new uniform and they are starting to show up here and there in bits and pieces. Maybe two complete new uniforms so far.

I purchased the shirt myself in early August and being a bit slow at sewing I am still going thru the laborious process of adding all the patches...! The one thing someone at national forgot about with the new shirt is that their is nothing for me to hang my Powderhorn medallion from the left pocket... hope they are working on a solution...! Also, for those who have only seen a picture... the photographer didn't do it justice and it looks a whole lot better when you actually see it for real.

A couple of years ago when the new nylon uniform pants came out I got a pair. I have to say they are ok for warm weather only and the mesh pockets already have holes in them... I'm not really sure there is a way to repair holes/tears in mesh fabric. So far the new heavy twill pants seem more comfortable and fit well... I'll be giving them their first real "field test" this weekend!

[thomas]

I bought one of the new uniforms and wear it now. I am also a Unit Commissioner and have just updated it to the new uniform also. I feel it is time for a new look and what better occasion than the centennial!

[Apache Bob]

T23 - my answer will be no real help concerning your pockets but it was the first thing that popped into my mind when I read your message.
Duct Tape it, inside and out.
Sorry I could not give you a real answer but my mind is in a funny mood today. :)

Good luck and share when you find a real answer.

[T23]

Well thanks for that idea Apache Bob!

Of course if I actually go and fix these holes that trail of Scouts following me around looking for all the small change I've been losing will probably disappear!