Volunteer Burnout

[scoutdad]

I think the reason parents are hesitant to volunteer is that we as scout leaders have no consideration for their time. We ask them to volunteer and leave the commitment open ended. We never take the time to find out the parents interets and match them to a position they will be interested in.
We can do better !

[wmontgomerybsa]

From a District Executive Standpoint,

You are 100% correct. I think parents will volunteer if they have fun. Don't let parents say "I am soooo busy, I just can't." Instead ask them what they'd like to help with and have a list of possible volunteer jobs in case they say "Uh, I don't know." Before you know it, you'll have parents taking ownership in the program and implementing their own ideas for activities.

[Scouting Mom]

From the perspective of a frustrated volunteer....

Leaders and other parents in the pack need to also respect the job the volunteers are doing and assist/cooperated when asked for help/information.

Specifically, I'm the Pack Advancement Chair. I send out at least 2 emails each month to all the leaders reminding them to give me a list of who has earned what and giving a deadline (the same deadline each month). I had one den leader who didn't respond until January, after bugging them each month since September. I had parents from that den come up to me in October and November, asking why their son didn't get their awards.

[FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER]

ScoutDad, I think you have it wrong. Most parents look at us as the VOLUNTEERS. Parents look at BSA to mean BABY SITTERS of AMERICA and Cub Scouts as CHILD SITTERS of AMERICA. Most parents with their busy schedules and trying to accomplish everything, they just drop off their boys and expect us to entertain their son for an hour or hour and a half. They do not realize all the time and effort that we as Leaders put in. You have to get firm and say that "if you parents do not step up, I will not and cannot do everything." If they squak, then tell them to step up and put their words into action to help you.
I know, I have been there and had to state there would be not activities in the Troop if parents did not step in to help.
Be prepared to hear that it is all your fault from parents who sit on the sidelines and just criticize.:mad:

[scoutdad]

Quit trying to be a martyr. Parents do want to help. Many just don't know what to do. Quit complaining and do something positive. There are many parents that volunteer their time and money to scouting.

It is up to the leaders of the unit to help educate and involve parents. Many leaders say parents aren't involved but do not ask them to be involved or wait to the last minute. Have you ever tried getting together with the parents and discussing the benefits of parental involvement?

I believe that our time would be better spent trying to involve more parents and discover ways to make scouting better. Not complaining all of the time.

Every things rises and falls on leadership. You have a choice to be a great positive leader or a negative one. The choice is yours.

[spfadmin]

Dear Forum Participants,

The ScoutParents team developed this forum to help parents become more involved in Scouting by giving them an opportunity to share ideas with one another. As anticipated, our most frequent posters are also our most passionate.

While this passion is very much appreciated, we do not want this forum to become a sounding board for negative attacks as this type of activity will only discourage parental involvement in Scouting.

In particular, please refrain from posting specific pack, troop, or unit numbers unless your comments are positive.

This forum is unique, and it is in Scouting's best interest that the dialogue remain positive, encouraging and productive. This is not to say that difficult issues should not be addressed. But they must always be discussed in a manner that does not cast blame or embarrass others.

Thanks again for your ongoing dedication to Scouting.

Sincerely,
ScoutParents Webmaster

[ScoutmasterJerry]

Well First I would like to thank the folks from ScoutParents for posting the last one..

Now Parental involvement is an easy fix.
Your unit could easily put together a Parent skills survey or interest survey. Have them fill it out when they join the unit.
On it, make sure and put the subject areas, job descriptions etc of what your unit needs.
If the unit is up front with what it needs... and it asks EVERYONE coming in the door for help [in the form of the survey and verbally] than you will reduce burnout and will set your unit up for long term success.

At the end of the day this is Scouting and its supposed to be fun. All the worry and gnashing of teeth does not make a better program for the boys.
And thats what its all about...The Boys!

I have found that you do not need to hold anything over anyone.. you just have to ask them to help. If the unit has a great plan, one that pretty much sells itself.. you should have no trouble getting the help you need.
Strong committees are key. A good Scoutmaster that loves Scouting and a Great Committee can never fail.:)

[TimelessValues]

Now Parental involvement is an easy fix.
Your unit could easily put together a Parent skills survey or interest survey. Have them fill it out when they join the unit.
On it, make sure and put the subject areas, job descriptions etc of what your unit needs.
If the unit is up front with what it needs... and it asks EVERYONE coming in the door for help [in the form of the survey and verbally] than you will reduce burnout and will set your unit up for long term success.



BSA has a Parent Resource Survey for just this purpose. I'm new here so I don't know how to attach a link yet but you can do a search for it and it should come up. The form is perfect.. asks all the right questions.

I remember being new in the troop and each task, each event seemed SO overwhleming to me. I was literally scared off. But when I was asked to take on an event or project and had the details explained to me I saw it was very doable ..

[miscoutmom]

I'm new to the Troop life as of February.... So, speaking for a Cub Scout point of view. You have to take your oppurtunities as they present themselves. If a parents says in passing... Oh, I have Wed off. Me.. Really?! :D Ya know, I could use another warm body at the Webelo table. Just show up, :) , and be a part of the group. You'll find your way like I did.

The truth, I never had an assitant. I prefered being alone... but I would from time to time "borrow" a parent to be a set of eyes <read.. babysitter> while I ran for something. Kept the natives from getting restless.
We also had stipulations on things... <ie... if you show up to both bottle drives you get your tshirts free> We do this in the Troop too.

Some parents you can't get to do anything.. We are truly babysitters for them.... and some are creative enough to get others to drive their kids there too. I think their kids definately suffer for that lack of support and participation.

As usual, the same group of people are always at the meeting whether troop or pack. You can't let it get to you... You took on the challenge of holding a volunteer position within the pack/troop whether you truly wanted to or not. That is where you just follow it through. The boys know who is there, they see you at every meeting... That is a great thing!!

good luck to all

Jenny
Troop 744:cool:

[1st Mate]

Burn-out is not unique to scouting. It happens to people in all areas of life when workloads, responsibility, or personal interactions become more of a chore than a source of joy.

It happens to some easier than others and it happens to some more frequently than others. The best remedy is observant and capable leadership.
We have as leaders a responsibility to understand the needs and characteristics of those we lead. We need to know what can lead to burn-out and and help support or redirect the people we are responsible for before they suffer the effects.

The most common cause is self inflicted. Many people who suffer burn-out simply enjoy being in the thick of things, or more precisely, in the thick of EVERYTHING.

Hat racks do not make for good long term volunteers. While its great to want to be teh Cubmaster, Trooop Committee, District Advancement Chiair, and, camporee chairman, it is not healthy for the individual or the program.

One person-one job is the best way to have a happy healthy and productive time in scouting.

Don't ask people to take on multiple jobs, Caution those you care about from taking on multiple jobs. If you are not comfortable saying "no", at least learn to say "maybe some other time".

[ScoutmasterJerry]

Prepare to get your Feathers ruffled...
But the next question you need to ask is how much Parent envolvment do you NEED.. not want...?
This is a boy lead organization... let the boys lead it and let the Committee support it.
Assistant Scoutmasters and Scoutmaster work with the Scouts in the Program areas.
The committee should be set up to be in a supportive role. Thats it.
When you have 26 Scouts and 26 adults on a campout you are not doing the right thing. You will never teach independance, self reliance, and living as a Patrol if Mom or Dad is in a constant hover.
Maintain the proper ratio for G2SS (2 deep) and call it good.
Drivers drop off and pick up.
Committee members plan and re source.
SM's and ASM's work in Program.
A clear division of labor and responsibilities.
Boy Scouts do not have Tiger Partners or Den Leaders... they have Patrol leaders, Senior Patrol Leaders, and Scoutmasters.
If you want to reduce burn out... figure out what direction your Troop is heading, find the committed Adult leaders that meet the needs of the program and go form there.
Let the committee get your MB Counselors trained and up to speed, waiting in the wings for some sharp Scout to ask for a Counselor.
Get your Board of Review crew ready so when a Scout completes his SM Conference he can make an appointment to have the Board meet with him.

There is a difference between need and want, and in the BSA program, NEED should take the lead. Less distractions to the program, allows the boys to lead. Progam leaders (SM/ASMs) that understand the program and are willing to put the effort into it for the Scouts will not burn out.

[1st Mate]

Hi Jerry,
While I agree that you should enough adults to get the job done, I will have to question your assertion that scouting is a "youth lead organization".

I have been doing this for quite some time and we have discussed this frequently at various training courses at all program levels. I know of nowhere in any Scout leader training or BSA resource that says scouting is a "youth lead organization".

It offers youth leadership opportunities certainly, it offers youth leadership development without a doubt. But a "youth lead organization"? That would be hard to explain considering the tens of thousands of adult leaders and adult professionals in the program.

Patrols have youth leaders, Troops have youth leadership positions, as do crews and ships. But is the scouting movement (or organization as some refer to it) a youth lead movement? That simply is not accurate.

The programs are lead by adults who develop ledership and provide leadership opprtunities to youth at various degrees in various programs.

Venturing comes far closer to a youth lead program then even Boy Scouting with yoth leaders at regional and nationa levels, where Boy Scouting has youth leadership positions only within the local unit, and Cub Scoutihng has comparatively no youth leadership at all.

As far as burnout within the Boy Scout program, certainly following the Boy Scout methods and helping the scouts to take on leadership responsibilities is a great way to stay excited and invigorated in the program as you watch
the scouts develop. I wouldn't say that youth leadership lightens the work load of the adult leaders, but it does change the workload to focus on more interesting aspects of adult leadership, and that certainly helps to diminish burnout.

[ScoutmasterJerry]

Chapter 3 of the Scoutmaster Handbook (#33009B) current issue, is titled "THE BOY LED TROOP".

In the first paragraph of that chapter it clearly states that
"The boys themselves develop a troops program, then take responsibility for figuring out how they will achieve their goals."

It goes on to say
"Some Scoutmasters struggle with the idea of allowing boys to lead the troop".

I never said that the Boy Scouts of America (National Organization) or the WOSM for that matter are not led by adults... But on further review I guess I would say that.. the Adults do not really lead anything.. they manage.
But I assumed this discussion focused on the Troop level and not national or even Council. Is the Scout Executive of your Council a leader or a manager?
Look to your DE's and DD's. They do not lead they re sourse and manage. Which is very different from the leadership that we are teaching our Scouts.
Hands on leadership built within the framework of the Patrol (Democracy) is the classroom for leadership.

Troops that do not allow the Scouts to lead are not conducting the program to achieve the aims of scouting.
It is the Scoutmasters function to train Boy leaders and provide direction, coaching, and support... not leading.

So far as burnout goes.. how can anyone be burned out from Scouting.. this is the best organization in America! And being a Scoutmaster is the greatest job in the world... I would even take a pay cut to keep this job (ha ha)!
YA GOTTA LOVE IT!!!

[1st Mate]

Hi Jerry
You said that the scouting organization is youth lead. And the Scouting organization is the BSA and consists of all three tradional programs. While parts of the Boy Scout program are youth lead, and much of Venturing is youth lead, none of Cub Scouts and no part of the BSA organization is youth lead.

The troop has youth leadership and the patrol has youth leadership but the organization is not youth lead. If adults did not lead we would not have so many leadersip training resources for adults. Adults absolutely lead. Coaching and mentoring others is leadeership. Helping a group function successfully is leadership. You manage 'things', you lead people. As an example; a committee member might manage records or money or an event, but the Committee chair leads the committee.

How can you say that a Den leader isn't a leader? Or a Scoutmaster, who trains and develops junior leaders.

You will not find anything in the BSA reasources that says it is a youth lead organization' . The program is adult lead, there are small groups within the program that have youth leadership positions. There is a big difference.

Remember, even in a troop where the adult leadership is transparent and the junior leadership is noticably more dominant, that it was the leadership of the adults that gave the scouts the skills to perfom at that level. The adults have not stopped leading, they just lead differently then when those scouts first began. Now they are doing more observing and coaching then directing. It is still leadership it is just adapted to that stage of development for the scouts at that moment.

We are an adult lead organization that uses youth leadership at various degress in various program levels as a method of development. We are not a youth lead organization.

[ScoutmasterJerry]

I agree with your comments....
BUT, in the context of this discussion.. Leader forum-Boy Scouts- we are not discussing Cub Scouts or Venturing, we are talking about Boy Scouts and that would center around the Troop.. which is (or supposed to be) Boy Led.

Yes the Adults lead... but it is not the same kind of leadership that we expect from the boys. We also are focusing on Volunteer Burn out in this Thread... My suggestion is that you do not need a whole lot of Adults cluttering your troops "Leadership"... a whole bunch of chiefs and not enough Indians gets your unit no where.
If you want to reduce Volunteer burnout.. let the Boys lead.
In my Troop the Boys are learning to do it all...except drive. The annual plan is done by the boys and re sourced by the committed, supported by the Scoutmaster and his assitants.. yeah Teaching, coaching, and mentoring are elements of leadership... but at no time am I as the Scoutmaster yelling "Follow me boys" Thats the SPLs job.

Again, I agree with your comments.. I am trying to keep it all in the context of a Boy Led Troop, which is what a Boy Scout troop should be.

Thanks for the great discussion. We all learn when we share ideas.

[1st Mate]

I agree that the troop is boy lead, that is not however what you first stated. You said that "this is a youth lead organization", which is far different than having a "boy lead Troop".

I would think that how many adults are too many depends on the program needs of each individual Troop. I would agree that if an adult is doing a job that a youth can do then the adult is doing the wrong thing.

[pauldfischer]

There area couple of things that I would like clarification on based on my understanding of BSA

1. The committee serves many roles.
 The committee (including the COR) oversees the troop and provides the troop direction and provides a vision if you will and sets the program goals within the boundaries of the BSA. Insuring that all members of the troop are trained, TDL, Youth protection etc is being adhered to.
 Provides oversight to the operation of the troop, Primarily via feed back gained at BOR.
 Provides support for operational functions (Activity chair, Summer Camp, Transportation, Treasurer, etc. based on the desires of the troop itself.
 Maintains records, and makes them available as required for operational functions. Tour permits, Summer Camp medical forms, insurance information, etc,
Overall it provides a resource for the Troop to utilize in its planning and execution of the program as defined by the committee itself.
I have not mentioned the Scoutmaster in any of the above, this does not mean that he (or She) does not have input to any of the above but the decisions on overall direction, and providing resources belongs to the committee.

2. The PLC has its roles also:
 The PLC takes the overall direction and vision of the committee and makes it real.
 This is normally done by the scoutmaster providing direction to the PLC such as—we need to plan a camp out for each month of the year except for July (Summer camp). Then he may also provide boundaries for the PLC to work with. Such as We need to try to stay within 150 miles of home, ( at least two of the campouts need to be backpacking) Remember the march camp out will have the crossover new scouts etc. The PLC will then flesh out the plan and decide where, what and how.
3. Scoutmaster (and ASM’s)
 They provide operational support and guidance as required to ensure that the boys stay on track and what they want can be done. Feedback on leadership, Meeting skills. Output from meeting is critical. They also provide feedback to the committee as to resources, and their own observations as to the operation of the program.

In short you need all three to operate a successful troop over the long haul. If not, you will suffer severe burnout in adults as well as in boys.

Out troop has 65 registered boys, (about 50 are active at any one time) we have about 35 adults registered with about 20 active in one role or another. It takes every oneof them to make us successful. In a time I would love to forget we had a scoutmaster who was forced to do all of the above by himself.the reasons are complex and convouted but, Lord love him I do not know how he retained his sanity while putting on a great program. But after about 2 years he had enough and had to step back.

Being boy led or Adult led is not the question, its how do you achieve a balance of both to allow for the goals of scouting.

With Respect

[ScoutmasterJerry]

You are absolutly right.. it takes all three to make the Troop a success.

The Scoutmaster does not get a vote on the committee.
The PLC with the Scoutmasters guidence develop the goals and vision of the Boy led program. They set the calendar and the Troop committee comes up with the resources to support the plan.
Vision comes from a colaborative effort of what the boys want and need and what direction the Committee (with the COR) wants the Troop to go.

The Scoutmaster and his assitants execute the BSA program with the support of the Committee...

So yes.. you need all three to be successful.

I will tell you that you will not truly be a Boy led troop if you do not allow them to lead and come up with the plan (buy in).
You will be stuck in a CEO model...where the committee dictates a program...hands the SPL a plan and he heards the Scouts through the annual plan.. he won't really lead and make decisions though... this is good in some Troops that are uncomfortable allowing boys to live and learn..make mistakes and develop from them.
The committee sets the flavor of the troop and defines its success.
The Scoutmasters execute with the Scouts to achieve the goals that make the Troop Successful.
The Scouts.. well its all about the Scouts.. a Boy Led Troop will get mentoring and coaching and become a success.

[pauldfischer]

I think what we are discussing is the difference between boy led and boy controlled.
The adults control, the boys lead. while some might think the difference is subtle to me it is substantial.

With Respect

[ScoutmasterJerry]

And I agree with you Paul.. this has been my point (although maybe not articulated well) all along.
I also believe that if you are in a Boy led Troop or understand the concept then there is no need to split words and one can see thru symantics.
It is outlined in the Scoutmaster Handbook... and even there is says that some Scoutmasters resist it.
I think the Boy led part is the way to develop leaders. There is no better way to learn it than by doing it.

Thanks for that clarification.. well said.