Involvement in the OA

[FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER]

How do we as Leaders get our boys more involved in the OA. Is it just me or do boys just want to get the patch and sash at the Ordeal and never be seen again? It is very frustrating at Chapter meetings to have just the Chapter Officers there and the Adult Advisers. We have tried Crafts and Outfit Making, Activities, and Ceremony Practices. I need some help as how we can improve attendace.
Am I alone in this problem?

Bob Klimas
Associate Chapter Advisor
Concord Chapter
Itibapishe Iti Hollo Lodge 188:confused:

[Scouter_58]

Bob,

In my experience, you're not alone.

Pardon my answering a question with more questions but how much does your lodge involve its chapters? How are communications between the lodge and chapters? Rare? Frequent? Timely? (...not last-minute, which can impact Scout parents' plans, too.) Does the lodge hold regular LECs (lodge executive committee meetings), inclusive of chapter chiefs and advisers? Is the lodge active in providing service? Might chapter Arrowmen feel uninvolved with or even alienated from the lodge? (Has the lodge taken on the characteristics of a "private club" or clique?) How's particpation in the OA Troop/Team Representative program in your lodge, overall? ...Thanks.

Scouter_58

[FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER]

Scouter_58

I would love to answer your questions. Our Chapter holds a District Camporee in the Winter. The Lodge is asked to help. The current Lodge Chief is from our District, so info is always past to us. Our Lodge has a Newsletter called "The Smoke Signal" which is supposed to be published quarterly by the Vice Chief of Communications. The LECs are held at our Spring Fellowship, Spring Ordeal, Fall Ordeal, and Fall Fellowship. Regarding service, the Lodge is always available to provide service. If a Cub Pack requests help at their Blue and Gold and Crossovers, the Lodge or Chapter will provide the Ceremony Team and/or Dance Team. I do not feel that the Arrowmen feel alienated from the Lodge. If they would come to an event, they would see what fun we have and get to know other Arrowmen from other Districts within the Council. With regards to the OA Troop/Team Representative program, it is not widely known of. I was at our Winter Banquet and I now found out from those who attended NOAC this past summer, that the OA Troop/ Team Representative is now a part of of the PLC. (BSA has not put this in any updated material though.) Going around to the Troops in our District with the Election Team, I have told this to Scoutmasters and they are surprised to hear this. Maybe by word of mouth, this will increase participation.
I hope this answers your questions.

Bob Klimas;)

[ScoutmasterJerry]

Great Topic.
Number 1 answer: Troop OA Representatives... Let the boys do it.
If you have an OA rep that has been impowered to run the OA in the Troop than you will get the involvement you seek.
It all starts and ends with the Scouts.
Some things that you as a Scoutmaster need to encourage and train:
1. OA Rep needs to attend all Chapter meetings and get the info.
2. Let the OA Scouts meet at least once a month. We started a "Tribe". Not an official function, but it allows them to meet and do things together. One of the ASM is the "Advisor" to the Tribe and he basically makes sure they stay on track.
3. NEVER...and I mean NEVER do what the Scouts can do.. if you do it..they wont. The OA is THEIR Program, let them run it.. you will be pleasantly suprised at how well they do.. Give them Purpose and Direction and let them go!
4. Make the OA special..it is the Honor Society..treat it that way. Not all should be in it, not all deserve the honor. OA Night.. once a month let them wear their sash to a meeting, it gets the younger boys talking a bit.
5. OA campout.. let them plan a weekend alone.. it becomes special and others want to be a part.
6. Get the OA boys out front. Have them run a campfire on a campout.. have them wear regelia if they have it.. Regelia workshops on a Saturday is a great way to get them started and doing something together.
7. And Finally.... The OA members first Obligation is to his Troop!!!! Never let them forget that.... have them work for the Troop. OA members should be out front..helping were ever they can. It never hurts to have them remind each other of the Obligation.

Now on Chapter and Lodge notes:
Yes we have a big chapter- it is currently in a "Rebuilding phase" buthas lots of promise. We are all looking forward to the trail that lays ahead.
Lodge- Great Lodge.. lots of opportunity and Activity.. up to the Scouts to get involved! But the opportunities are there.
Good Youth leadership and thats what matters!!

[Scouter_58]

Right on, Scoutmaster Jerry!

To follow-up, may I suggest the following comprehensive on-line resource from the Conclave Training Initiative, OA Troop/Team Representative - "A Guide to Effective Local Program":

http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/resources/cti/cti-3-resource.pdf

This particular resource offers many approaches to implementing an effective OA Troop/Team Representative program across all organizational levels, e.g., unit, chapter, lodge, council, section, region, etc.

"The key to running this program successfully is simple: keep all Troop/Team Representatives informed and make them feel that they are needed and crucial aspects of lodge administration. As soon as your lodge has this program in place, you will immediately reap the benefits in the form of more capable leaders, and increased attendance at lodge events." -- http://www.oa-bsa.org/ - the Official National Order of the Arrow Web Site.

When this key point is implemented, I see the benefits of "more capable leaders and increased attendance" extending back from the lodge to the chapters and units.

(ScoutParents readers may not know that to become a member of the Order of the Arrow, a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout is chosen by vote of the youths in his unit. This is a unique feature of the OA since the majority of those who select their candidates for this honor are NOT members of the OA lodge. The qualifications and election process for OA candidacy are very well and openly documented by the national Order of the Arrow and the actual elections are overseen locally.)

Hope these help....


Scouter_58

[FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER]

I know that the OA Troop/Team Representative is an important part of conveying info from the Lodge and Chapter to the unit. I had for 4 years an OA Rep in the Troop, but most of the boys only wanted the position for advancement. Most of the times the OA Troop Rep never went to Chapter and Lodge meetings and events. My son was the only OA Troop Rep who went ot meetings and gave reports to the Troop. That was because both of us are in the OA.
Right now, our Chapter Secretary is from my old Troop. I started dragging him to meetings and now he is hooked on the OA. He told me that at the Troop's next election of SPl and ASPL, he is going to ask to be the Troop OA Rep. This boy sends out minutes to all OA members after the meeting, sends out a meeting agenda prior to the meeting, and when we go to elections, he brings a dues form with him to get the OA members to pay their dues.
This boy is being groomed to eventually be a Lodge Officer.
He and I are going to go to OA LDS (Leadership Development Seminar) this Summer in Tennessee. This boy talks up the OA to all Scouts in school.
If we had more like him, the Chapter and Lodge will be even more successful.
I know we as Adult Members know the significance and fun of the OA and with a boy like this one, maybe he can reach more boys than we can as Adults.

[ScoutmasterJerry]

Most of the times the OA Troop Rep never went to Chapter and Lodge meetings and events.

As it has been stated.. the OA Troop/Team Rep is key to the success of the OA.
You said "Now he is hooked" that is what you want to see.
Lets say a District has 42 troops.. each Troop has an OA Rep. In a perfect "Jerry World" all the Troop Reps attend at least the Chapter meeting. That would be increable attendance and you could help but generate some enthusiasm within the District and the Chapter.

Personal story.. My son was the SPL of our Troop.. he did a good job, but by the time his term was up, he was ready to hang it up.. lots of work and pressure (high expectations being the SM's son and SPL). He is in the OA and on the Ceremonies team. One of the advisors cornered hoim at the Chapter meeting and asked if he would be on a planning committee a Chapter event.. he did. Then he asked if he could be the OA rep after the election. The Troop committee agreed that he would be a good OA rep, since he loves the OA and understands the obligation to the Troop.
Any way to make the long story short. Since he took on that job, he is renewed in energy and works hard for unit.
I think he does more now than he did as SPL... but he enjoys being part of the Troop and loves his job.

[ccjj]

My troop has been around for almost 5 years now, and not once has anyone from the OA been to one of our meetings. We have gotten the run around on who to contact to get someone there. So, none of our boys or adults have anything to do with OA. It isn't for lack of interest. A couple of our older boys were really interested at one point, but after trying to get an OA representative into our troop for several years and not having any luck, they just gave up.

ccjj

[ScoutmasterJerry]

[clip]they just gave up.

ccjj

Well thats the wrong answer...
Where does your local Chapter meet? And when?
Who is the Chapter Advisor?

Ok.. now here is are some ways to find the answers.. Most Chapters meet during the Round table sessions. If yours does not.. I would bet that some one at Round table would be happy to help. The DE and the District Committee chair know who is running what.. they appoint the OA Advisor to the Chapter.. this is a District job.
So going to Round table would give you a great opportunity to meet face to face with the right people.
You are doing your Troop a huge disservice by leaving the opportunities of the Order of Arrow out.
Remember that the OA is run by YOUTH.. so if you did not hear anything, it may be because the Scout that is supposed to call you had too much homework, or had a date.... The advisors in the OA Advise, they do not do the work for the boys.
YOU as an Adult leader can make contacts with the Advisors and get some answers.
Giving up is absolutly the wrong answer though.


I am the Admin. Advisor for our Chapter.. and know first hand that this is a Boy run program, unlike some Troops... so for some Adult leaders it is hard to wrap their arms around the idea that a Boy is on the other end of the line.
These Scouts do a fantastic job and take it serious, but they, like us are busy and sometimes loose focus.

Hang in there.. But allow your Scouts the opportunity to experience the wonderful Brotherhood of the Order of the Arrow.

Just my two cents...
WWW

[ccjj]

I have been to RoundTable which is where our OA chapter meets. I was to told to talk with "Bob". But he sent me to "Timmy", who said it wasn't his responsibility to get into troops, but he sent me to "Jimmy". I went and talked with several boys who each told me to talk with someone else. So, I went to the OA advisor who said he would talk to his son (who was one of the boys in charge), and I haven't heard anything from anyone, and this was over 1 year ago.
No, I do not wish to give up. From what I have heard from some friends in other troops, the OA does good things. Earlier this year, I was at a council program meeting and they were talking about OA. Again, I gave them my phone number and the name and number of my troops SPL. They said that someone would call to schedule an election. Guess what? Two months later, and still no one has contacted us.
I truly wish to give the boys in my troop the opportunity to join OA or at least learn more about it. But, at this point in time, I don't know what else I can do.

ccjj

[FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER]

Dear ccjj:

I am totally flabbergasted by the runaround that you received.
I cannot for the life of me know why an OA Chapter did not schedule an election for your Troop.
As an Associate Chapter Advisor, I am constanly in touch with the Election Teams to see how many elections have been scheduled. If i getr a call from a Scoutmaster, I take the info and get it to the Secretary of the Chapter to schedule the election. I then follow up with the Secretary and Scoutmaster to see that everything has been done.
I am afraid that in your area has dropped the ball and has given the OA a bad name.
Hang in there, Hopefully things in your area will get better. One thing to remember also is that, if you do have a Unit Election and a boy is elected, you can also have an Adult nominated by the Troop Committee for the OA.
This way you can get involved in the Chapter also in a helpful manner.

Bob Klimas
Associate Chapter Adviser
Concord, N.C. OA

[ScoutmasterJerry]

ccjj-

Hmmmm....

I really wish I had a better answer for you.. or at least some productive advice.
Let me tell you that not all OA Chapters/Lodges operate the way yours seems to.
The Order of the Arrow is such a wonderful part of Scouting, it pains me to read what you have written.

Please hang in there.. I wish I knew where you are, I'd help in person..
Bob has said it... Your "Chapter has dropped the ball"
Hopefully someone that really lives the obligation and believes in the program will step up from your Chapter/Lodge.

When does your Chapter do its Call outs/Tap outs??

To hold an Election, you really need to have a Representative from the Chapter or Lodge on hand. This link (http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2006-Final.pdf) explains the process of elections etc. I am not sure if it helps, but hey its more than what you are getting at home...

Hope it all works out for you

[ccjj]

Thanks for the kind replies.

I know that they have done call outs at summer camp.

I have a council program meeting tomorrow, and hopefully a representative from the Order of the Arrow will be there. If so, I will again give them the information for my troop. I will let you know if we receive any kind of a response.

ccjj

[Scouter_58]

FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER (Bob),

"Everything old is new again," I guess you could say. Although the reference is somewhat "buried," and wording and emphasis have varied over time since the national Troop/Team Representative program was introduced (~1999), up to now most OA documents have said pretty much the same thing:

"Who Can Serve as a Troop/Team Representative?

Anyone in the unit who is under the age of 18 can serve as the OA Representative for the unit, provided he is a dues-paid member of the OA. He should be appointed by the Senior Patrol Leader or Varsity Team Captain, and will be a member of the Patrol Leaders’ Council and attend lodge and chapter meetings." -- combined examples from [I]Order of the Arrow Troop/Team Representative Support Pak (2000) and The Unit Representative (2004 National Order of the Arrow Conference)

NOAC 2006 material also addressed and reemphasized the role of the chapter in the OA lodge. See:

http://training.oa-bsa.org/?action=browse&dir=National%20OA%20Conference/2006/

Scouter_58

:o I wasn’t so sure about what I had written (quoted above) after comparing the organizational charts in the newest Scoutmaster Handbook and the Patrol Leader Handbook with statements in current, but earlier published, Order of the Arrow (OA) literature (also quoted above). So, I contacted the Boy Scout Division about the apparent differences between them concerning the OA troop/team representative’s status on the Patrol Leaders’ Council (PLC).

I was notified by the Boy Scout Division that the OA troop representative is not a member of the PLC, in spite of OA documentation and other information provided at NOACs (2006 et al).

Their message to me confirmed that the OA troop representative is a troop-level support position, the same as other troop leadership positions. The Boy Scout Division rep also mentioned that the documentation differences were discussed with the "OA guys" and they agree. To be consistent with the Scoutmaster Handbook and the Patrol Leader Handbook, the OA will change their material when it’s reprinted.

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused...

Scouter_58

[ScoutmasterJerry]

I hate to pick at old scabs... But I reread the posts on this thread, and it again upset me to see the run around CCJJ got.
I hope that there has been some resolve in the matter.

I would like to reinforce a point I made earlier and that is, as a unit leader do some homework and let the boys know about the OA.
I would get in touch with your LODGE.. affiliated with your Council. They will help you out even if your Chapter does not.
It will take a spark to get things moving in the right direction and maybe you and your Scouts are what the Chapter needs to become and active Chapter.

A program that some Troops in our Chapter/District started is that the Troops have "Tribes" These are made up of Scouts in the Troop that are in good standing in the OA.
The Tribes do ceremonies like Cross overs and Legends at Blue and Gold for the Cubbies. They are dedicated to service within the Troop and in most cases they have requirements for maintaining membership in the Tribe.
Our Troop started one and it has added so much to the Troop.
The Scouts in the Tribe are active and participate in Chapter and Lodge events, but remain loyal to the Troop first.
Once you have Scouts in the OA... consider this option.. its "Unofficial" but seems to be working well in our Chapter.
If you want more information regarding this.. email me.

[ccjj]

We still have had no contact with anyone from the OA. I even made contact with some OA members from a different chapter to see if they could help us. The only response I get is, "I will check into it". A couple of my good friends are going thru their Brotherhood in September, and they said they would talk to the powers that be then. Maybe, we can see about getting somewhere from there.

ccjj

[1st Mate]

ccjj
Call your local Council Service Center, one of the professionals in your council is assigned the duties of being the professional advisor to the OA. Make an appointment to meet with him (her) so that you can sit face to face and have his or her undivided attention.

There is no reason that they could not get you an answer to your situation while you are there.

[WB Bear]

ccjj,
I am sorry you’re not getting any support from anyone. The service center, as stated by 1st Mate, can give you the professional adviser for the OA and speak with him. They can also give you your Chapter Adviser and the Lodge Adviser name. Contacting the DE or the Lodge volunteers should get some results. If you still can’t get a response, you can always go to the Section or Regional sites the OA in your area and get some contact information there.

It is really sad you’re not getting any answers but hopefully it is because you’re not contacting the right people. It is important that the OA grows and is an integral part of the units programs. Even, for example, if you don’t have anyone eligible to be elected into the OA, there should be a contact with every unit each year by the Chapter.

[ccjj]

This past weekend at a Scout event, I talked with the adult chapter advisor (I think that is what he is). He put me in contact with one of the youth leaders. The youth leader said to have our SPL contact him, that it is the responsibility of the youth to request the OA to come in. I explained to him that we have been trying for 5 years to get the OA into our troop, and have had no luck. Finally, he agreed to come into one of our troop meetings and talk about the OA. He is going to try to come out in October. We will see if he shows up. The fall ordeal is in 2 weeks, and he wants to wait until after that event, then he will come out. (I hope.)
As for talking to the professional assigned to the OA, we now have 4 new DE's in our council, and they are all learning as they go.

ccjj

[WB Bear]

Do you have anyone in your Troop who is a member of the OA?

I am glad you have the ball rolling. I hope you did get the youths phone number to remind him about coming. The Lodge should be contacting each unit and setting up elections each year, that is their responsibility.

[ccjj]

At this time, no one in the troop is an OA member. Our troop is just 5 years old. We are up to 14 boys now, and have 6 who are eligible. We will see and I will keep you informed.

ccjj

[WB Bear]

Please do. It is really a shame there is no OA involvment with your Troop. I am not sure when your Lodge holds it elections but hopefully you will be able to elect some youth and nominate some adults.

[ScoutmasterJerry]

Glad to see you have not given up hope or patients...

Elections for membership is typically held in January thru March (at least in our Lodge)..that way Chapters can conduct Call outs (formerly Tap outs) during Camporee.

What council are you in? Each Council has an Order of the Arrow Lodge that is affiliated with it. They are a great resource.
Most Chapters have at least contact information via the Council.

Hang in there. Once your Scouts get in and get involved they will learn to appreciate the Brotherhood of Cheerful Service.
Your Troop will benifit and you should see growth in the Scouts.

[FRUSTRATED SCOUTMASTER]

ccjj:

As everyone has said, I will also say do not give up.
I don't know whether in your Council you have just a Lodge Chapter or have District Chapters. That would be something to find out.
Speaking for our Lodge, we have 7 District Chapters within the Lodge.
Once your have an election next year, there is one thing also to remember and that is that if a unit elects one boy for membership, the Troop Committee can recommend ONE Adult also for membership.
This would be a good way for your boys and an adult to get involved and prevent the problems that you have experienced in the past.
As Jerry stated, Elections are normally held January thru March. I would STRONGLY suggest that you contact your Lodge and schedule your election early and DO NOT let them give you the runaround.
Once your boys get involved, they will see what a great organization the OA is. It will afford them opportunities to expand their Leadership Skills and meet boys from other Troops and build new friendships.
Also remember that once a boy is elected into the OA and completes his Ordeal, he is a member as a Youth until his 21st Birthday. If he continues in the Scouting Program as an Adult, he is still a member of the OA (as long as he pays his dues.)
Keep all of us informed of your progress.

Yours in Scouting,
Bob Klimas
Associate Chapter Advisor
Concord, N.C.:)